JB4 for 718 - Porsche 718 Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 03-19-2019, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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JB4 for 718

Has anyone tried this yet? I would be inclined to try this in lieu of a flash tune since you currently need to send the ECU in:
Porsche 718 JB4 tuner | BurgerTuning.com

Claims 75hp/75tq.
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post #2 of 19 Old 03-19-2019, 08:09 PM
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Interesting, JB4 has been a good product as far as I know, at least for BMW turbo cars.

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post #3 of 19 Old 03-19-2019, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting, JB4 has been a good product as far as I know, at least for BMW turbo cars.
Yes they have a good rep with BMW. I used to own a 135is.
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post #4 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 12:01 AM
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Looks very promisin]
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post #5 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 03:06 AM
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Dyno graph looks like a Maha graph and thats good.
But you should not use any correction according to Porsche or other Maha users.

*edit*
Looks like correction factor is 0,00%

For the fun of it.....

Last edited by johan; 03-28-2019 at 03:15 AM.
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post #6 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
Has anyone tried this yet? I would be inclined to try this in lieu of a flash tune since you currently need to send the ECU in:
Porsche 718 JB4 tuner | BurgerTuning.com

Claims 75hp/75tq.
Just an opinion: I wouldn't recommend JB4. I have driven several cars with JB4, but not Porsche's.
The point of a JB4 is that it's generally used when a DME (ECU control module) has yet to be cracked or hacked. Once the technology is out for a proper ECU tune, JB4 gets tossed out the window. The JB4 is a piggyback unit that controls limited parameters like boost and timing, but it's not smooth. It's essentially like an outside alien or parasite that will control a few functions to increase performance.
It's a great idea when there's nothing else available on the market to increase power for your car. This was a problem in the BMW community when they launched the E90 and F30. There were no alternatives, because no one was able to crack the updated BMW DME's. Once the DME was cracked, several tuners popped up with proper ECU tunes, and everybody who was able to (financially speaking), switched.
Now if you go on to a Beemer forum and mention you just bought an M3, 335i, 328i, etc... and you plan to modify with a JB4, you'll have 15-20 different people explaining why not to go this route.
I have a VR Tune from Vivid Racing. They have 2 types (a piggyback style that's similar to a JB4 and a proper ECU tune), I of course opted for the ECU version. ECU tunes tend to run a bit more seamless and similar to OEM drivability.
Yes, as it stands now, you would have to remove your DME and send it to a tuner to crack. I'm not sure if Cobb or someone else has come out with a flash tune for our cars that we can do ourselves. But I'd at least take the time and look into it and see if one is available yet. In time, we'll have several flash tune options for our cars that you can download on to the car yourself. But being a new platform, your options are a bit more limited.
I would recommend sending in your DME to VR or Eiserman, maybe even waiting till there's flash tune (if you're not comfortable sending in your DME) or doing a little bit of research to see if a flashtune is already out (I haven't looked for a while, so My information might be a bit outdated). I'm just simply trying to give you an alternative to a piggyback unit...
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post #7 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
Has anyone tried this yet? I would be inclined to try this in lieu of a flash tune since you currently need to send the ECU in:
Porsche 718 JB4 tuner | BurgerTuning.com

Claims 75hp/75tq.
I have a Burger Stage 1 on my Mini Paceman S, making it much more fun to drive. The install was < 5 minutes. My wife's 335ix Burger Stage 1 was more of a pain to install, but made the BMW into a rocket. Burger's customer and tech service are excellent. The 335ix unit went out during the first year. We trouble-shooted over the phone, and they sent out a replacement at no cost. They claim these units don't leave a trace, for those who are concerned about voiding the warranty. I have no Porsche experience with them. The rear wheel 75 hp/75tq claim is not likely a Stage 1 boost, and might require fuel changes.
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post #8 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 11:28 AM
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I subscribe to the same opinion that @TEST DRyVer does: JB4s and other so-called 'piggyback' tunes are a relatively easy way to coax more power out of an engine -- but that ease is at both the significant risk and the sacrifice of a number of things that you absolutely cannot control without significant additional expense (and you may as well get an ECU tune at that point of expense).

The point he made about BMWs is a fantastic one. It literally took years for large aftermarket shops to crack the ECU on BMW's Nxx engines, particularly the N55. That, as well as relative cost, is why piggyback modules became popular for BMWs.

However, for our cars, the ECU was cracked first, then piggyback modules became available. What that tells me is that tuner companies such as Burger (which makes the JB4) believe that there are enough people who can't stomach either/both the cost and relative inconvenience of a true ECU tune to support bringing a piggyback device to market -- ergo, the market force for the product is not extra power: it's cost. IOW, a piggyback is a 'cheap' way to add it on a car that already has a better way available.

So basically, a piggyback device on a Porsche is like listening to a McIntosh audio system through Realistic (Radio Shack) loudspeakers. C'mon. This is a Porsche. Don't cheap out on it.

Also: Because of the way a piggyback module works (it basically fools the existing ECU into delivering more this-and-that), things like your boost gauge, various temperature gauges, and other key ECU monitoring circuits -- basically, anything controlled by CAN-BUS that the JB4 attaches to -- will cease to be accurate. Do you really want to risk that?
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post #9 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 03:16 PM
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I would never run a piggyback controller on our cars. Just too much potential risk there for me.
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post #10 of 19 Old 03-28-2019, 07:17 PM
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I have been professionally tuning for over 20 years. I was the lead software engineer and calibrator at a piggyback company for 4 years. Full disclosure Arcflash is a COBB Pro-Tuner so perhaps I'm biased here but I've seen both sides of the industry... This is my thought, piggy backs, like tuning the ECU if done properly can work well. If done poorly either can have terrible results. I tried for years to get the piggyback company to look towards the future and investigate reflashing ECUs. They didn't and no longer have a North American facility... Anyway if you can reflash your ECU it's better than a piggyback every time. The piggyback for example can't raise your boost limits or rev limiter, it has to trick the ECU by clamping the peak boost. This is bad because your car no longer has closed loop control, it's thinking it's running x boost when it's really running y boost. Yes you can add the fuel and adjust the timing to accommodate the boost level your ECU doesn't know it's running but you also lose safety features from that too.

I've tuned many hundreds of cars with piggy backs and I wished I had the control an ECU reflash offers on every one of them. Like others have said, if you can't get a reflash and a piggyback is available it's not a bad way to go if your tuner knows what they are doing and the limitations and caveats of the device. For example if I wanted to tune a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma I'd use a piggy back. But I wouldn't be touching rev limiters or faking out boost levels to the ECU. You just adjust the fueling and timing as needed and that's it. Much simpler scenario vs. a modern Porsche with a turbocharger!
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