[JKavanagh94]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice from people who have driven/owned a GTS.

I am completely new to the Porsche world and find myself in a fortunate position where I am looking to purchase a GTS. I am slightly torn between the 2.5 gts and the 4.0 gts based off some reviews I have seen online.

I know the benefits of the 4.0 are the sound, residual values and power delivery (from some reviews I have watched and read), however the 2.5 gts seems to represent good value and looks like performance wise there isn't much difference.

As I haven't owned a particularly fast car (currently have a mk 7 golf GTI), I know that a GTS will be a significant upgrade on anything I have previously driven. I mostly drive on the weekends and do the odd trip during the week when I am not in the office, however I am looking for something that will put a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Will be good to understand from you guys about the sound of the 2.5 GTS as I have heard mixed reviews on this and if I would notice any difference on a day to day basis, barring in mind I haven't really owned/driven a performance car previously.

Any thoughts and discussion would be greatly appreciated

Thanks guys!

 

[CaymanMatt]

There is so much discussion here about that. Please do a search for what has been written already. There's a thread with almost the exact same name as yours that is still current.

GTS 4.0 vs GTS 2.5

Hello, Is there a reason to prefer a GTS 4.0 over a GTS 2.5T besides the exhaust tone? Exhaust tone is basically a personal taste thing. In terms of performance, it seems 2.5T beats the 4.0 in all measurable ways? Or a Stage 1 on 2.5T GTS turns it into a great valued Porsche car ? Please, any...

www.718forum.com

Can the moderators close this thread up since it's already been discussed three zillion times already?

 

[subculture]

Good afternoon.
Loads all over this forum on this exact question and you will get replies both camps advising which is then best tbh.
Please do ignore the sound issue btw, both are loud just in a different way.
Not much at all in the performance although this is subjective also but believe me when I say you will notice a huge difference with either version over your Golf.

Suggest you get to drive both and purchase depending on your feelings and budget.

Saying that, personally I did not test drive, had originally ordered a Base Boxster and my GTS came up as an alternative. I could not be happier with it

 

[JKavanagh94]

Thanks guys, new to these forums and have since found a few good threads with some great info on it so apologies for going over old ground!

Great to hear you are enjoying yours

 

[ThreePedalEd]

Thanks guys, new to these forums and have since found a few good threads with some great info on it so apologies for going over old ground!

Great to hear you are enjoying yours

I posted this in the other thread you moved to as well. BTW, welcome to the forum and don't feel guilty for starting a new thread. There are about a million topics that have been discussed a zillion times and I'm just as guilty. So here goes:

My bottom line recommendation is for you to drive both cars before you pull the trigger on either. All the "other peoples" opinions in the world don't really matter on something this relatively subjective. The cars are very similar in objective performance stats, but they achieve those in different ways. Personally, I prefer the power delivery and feel of the naturally aspirated 4.0 and prior to it's introduction, had never been tempted to sell/trade my perfectly fine 2014 Cayman S with its 3.4 liter NA 6 cylinder. Back in late 2019 I could have bought a brand new Cayman GTS 2.5 for $13,000 discount to MSRP - and it would have been quicker and slightly better handling than my 981. But after a test drive I realized I preferred the responsiveness and feel of my (slower) 3.4. But I know others in the local PCA that absolutely love their GTS (or S) 2.5's. And we get along great

A couple of other random thoughts. All the hoopla over the "sound" of the 2.5 vs. 4.0 is a bit overblown, IMO. They are different, of sure, and I can see why some prefer the sound of the 4.0, but it's not like the 2.5 sounds like a Toyota Camry. To me, the much bigger difference is in the way the power is delivered and what you feel and experience when you press the accelerator through the full RPM range.. That's something you should experience for yourself. Another thought: it appears that the 2.5 has more fans with PDK transmissions and the 4.0 more with 6-speed manuals. As my name suggests, I'm in the latter camp. I don't want to make a blanket statement or offend anyone, but it seems that the 4.0 appeals more to those who prefer a higher level of engagement, at higher RPM's. The 2.5 delivers most of its power at lower rpms. So for me, the 2.5 with PDK is the quicker car, the 4.0 with a 6-speed manual is the more visceral car.

Please try to get some seat time in both. It's steak or salmon. We can't tell you which will taste better to you.

 

[JKavanagh94]

I posted this in the other thread you moved to as well. BTW, welcome to the forum and don't feel guilty for starting a new thread. There are about a million topics that have been discussed a zillion times and I'm just as guilty. So here goes:

My bottom line recommendation is for you to drive both cars before you pull the trigger on either. All the "other peoples" opinions in the world don't really matter on something this relatively subjective. The cars are very similar in objective performance stats, but they achieve those in different ways. Personally, I prefer the power delivery and feel of the naturally aspirated 4.0 and prior to it's introduction, had never been tempted to sell/trade my perfectly fine 2014 Cayman S with its 3.4 liter NA 6 cylinder. Back in late 2019 I could have bought a brand new Cayman GTS 2.5 for $13,000 discount to MSRP - and it would have been quicker and slightly better handling than my 981. But after a test drive I realized I preferred the responsiveness and feel of my (slower) 3.4. But I know others in the local PCA that absolutely love their GTS (or S) 2.5's. And we get along great

A couple of other random thoughts. All the hoopla over the "sound" of the 2.5 vs. 4.0 is a bit overblown, IMO. They are different, of sure, and I can see why some prefer the sound of the 4.0, but it's not like the 2.5 sounds like a Toyota Camry. To me, the much bigger difference is in the way the power is delivered and what you feel and experience when you press the accelerator through the full RPM range.. That's something you should experience for yourself. Another thought: it appears that the 2.5 has more fans with PDK transmissions and the 4.0 more with 6-speed manuals. As my name suggests, I'm in the latter camp. I don't want to make a blanket statement or offend anyone, but it seems that the 4.0 appeals more to those who prefer a higher level of engagement, at higher RPM's. The 2.5 delivers most of its power at lower rpms. So for me, the 2.5 with PDK is the quicker car, the 4.0 with a 6-speed manual is the more visceral car.

Please try to get some seat time in both. It's steak or salmon. We can't tell you which will taste better to you.

Thank you so much for this, very helpful with your comments!

I think you are definitely correct that I need to test drive both cars, however I am finding difficulty locating a dealer that is relatively close to me that has a 4.0 available to test atm.

I suppose my biggest concern is the sound, however based off what you have mentioned and also other comments on this topic, it is somewhat blown out of proportion. A work colleague of mine has a 2.0 718 and when I was in the car with him, it didn't sound as strong as I would have hoped, however I am sure the 2.5t has a slightly different soundtrack.

Thank you also for your insight on the transmissions. I am pretty set on a PDK having only driven manual's in the past, and it does seem as if the PDK package on the 2.5 is a more popular option!

 

[Dragobrath]

Thank you so much for this, very helpful with your comments!

I think you are definitely correct that I need to test drive both cars, however I am finding difficulty locating a dealer that is relatively close to me that has a 4.0 available to test atm.

I suppose my biggest concern is the sound, however based off what you have mentioned and also other comments on this topic, it is somewhat blown out of proportion. A work colleague of mine has a 2.0 718 and when I was in the car with him, it didn't sound as strong as I would have hoped, however I am sure the 2.5t has a slightly different soundtrack.

Thank you also for your insight on the transmissions. I am pretty set on a PDK having only driven manual's in the past, and it does seem as if the PDK package on the 2.5 is a more popular option!

I've test driven 2.5T and 4.0NA. They sound a bit different, but it's not like one is bad and another one is good. Both are great, but NA is just better. People who complain about 2.5T sound are mostly car reviewers who need to write about something, and previous gen Cayman owners. It shouldn't be a concern to someone who's new to Porsche.

Overall if you don't have a strong opinion on turbo vs NA, and plan to drive PDK, then 2.5T is a great option. You'll be happy with it. Main advantage of Cayman is mid engine driving dynamics, suspension and the steering. It's a tremendously good car compared to anything else in its price range.

 

[MidnightSun]

After going through this discussion tons of times, my suggestion for anyone new to Porsche is to go with the 2.5. I think the subtle advantages of the 4.0 start to look like diminishing returns to folks who are on the fence.

I.e., in a "cost-vs-worth" discussion, it's tough to argue against the 2.5 GTS at a ~$30k discount vs the 4.0.

Coming from someone who's owned both, plus several other Porsches. It's very difficult to come away disappointed after driving any 718, let alone a GTS. Turbo or not.

But yes, you can read up on all the different opinions on this forum, there are lots of them.

 

[MikeDe]

you honestly have to drive them BOTH, they are both amazing and have diff driving characteristics.

 

[aschen]

I bought a 2.5gts simply because it was much more in line my budget. Like I could get a 2.5gts AND a new daily driver for less than a 4.0. If you are not as cost conscious the decision may be harder however.

I was a bit hesitant on the 2.5L based on reviews complaining about the sound. Figured engine would be adequate and the rest of the car would be fantastic so good enough. Ive done a 180 on this after owning the car. Love the little 4cyl. Its snorty and rowdy pulls all the way to redline. I think the torque characteristics match the long gearing. 4cyl turbos have a stigma of economy car perhaps but this is as good as a 4cyl turbo gets IMHO (driven/owned many)

 

[boitjie]

You should be able to get some seat time in a 2.5GTS, I would strongly recommend it, it is such a personal thing. The earlier 2.5GTS' are pre-particulate filter (like mine), and I understand the sound is less muted.

You should be able to get a 2.5GTS test drive quite easily, failing that try an 'S' - with a sports exhaust. There is no real discernible power difference (350 vs 365PS - I think).

 

[rasetsu]

Thank you so much for this, very helpful with your comments!

I think you are definitely correct that I need to test drive both cars, however I am finding difficulty locating a dealer that is relatively close to me that has a 4.0 available to test atm.

I suppose my biggest concern is the sound, however based off what you have mentioned and also other comments on this topic, it is somewhat blown out of proportion. A work colleague of mine has a 2.0 718 and when I was in the car with him, it didn't sound as strong as I would have hoped, however I am sure the 2.5t has a slightly different soundtrack.

Thank you also for your insight on the transmissions. I am pretty set on a PDK having only driven manual's in the past, and it does seem as if the PDK package on the 2.5 is a more popular option!

From what I've heard in person, I think both the 4.0 and 2.5 benefits greatly from exhaust mods. A high flow downpipe on the 2.5 and particulate filter deletes on the 4.0 really open up the sound on each. I don't know about legalities of such modifications on your side of the pond though.

 

[lion shf]

If I could afford the 4.0 plus $ to fix the gearing, my last ice would be a manual 4.0. As I am, the 19 GTS PDK looks pretty **** great.

 

[JKavanagh94]

After going through this discussion tons of times, my suggestion for anyone new to Porsche is to go with the 2.5. I think the subtle advantages of the 4.0 start to look like diminishing returns to folks who are on the fence.

I.e., in a "cost-vs-worth" discussion, it's tough to argue against the 2.5 GTS at a ~$30k discount vs the 4.0.

Coming from someone who's owned both, plus several other Porsches. It's very difficult to come away disappointed after driving any 718, let alone a GTS. Turbo or not.

But yes, you can read up on all the different opinions on this forum, there are lots of them.

Thank you for your insight!

Having kept a close eye on the market over the last month with the prices of the 4.0, it does make me wonder if the extra is worth it, so I am glad to hear from you and others on here that the 2.5 will not disappoint, especially for new comers like myself!

Thank you!

 

[JKavanagh94]

I bought a 2.5gts simply because it was much more in line my budget. Like I could get a 2.5gts AND a new daily driver for less than a 4.0. If you are not as cost conscious the decision may be harder however.

I was a bit hesitant on the 2.5L based on reviews complaining about the sound. Figured engine would be adequate and the rest of the car would be fantastic so good enough. Ive done a 180 on this after owning the car. Love the little 4cyl. Its snorty and rowdy pulls all the way to redline. I think the torque characteristics match the long gearing. 4cyl turbos have a stigma of economy car perhaps but this is as good as a 4cyl turbo gets IMHO (driven/owned many)

That's great to hear that you are enjoying yours, very jealous!

I am somewhat budget conscious, however after hearing some of the thoughts from yourself and others who have owned one (not just YouTube car reviewers), it does seem hard to justify the difference in price for the same amount of thrills.

 

[CaymanMatt]

Since I commented first, and since it appears that this thread will not die on its own, I will add some more of my own thoughts. These thoughts have been posted before but what the heck.

The turbo 718s are awesome for most anything most people will be doing. They are incredible cars for the street, rural areas, essentially non-track usage. They have max torque consistently through the mid-range, meaning back roads find you more often than not right where you want to be in the rev range. NA 718s are in their element on the track because they get max torque generally at the higher end of their rev range. Does that mean you can't drive either of them in the other element? **** no!

Really, it's all up to what you want. Sound? I personally love the sound of my 2.5 GTS. Its a snarl, not a scream. BTW, this car is a beast on the road. You can use this car near its limits in a normal urban or rural setting but you will be risking license and jail time doing so. I'm pretty sure the same can be said about the 4.0 but only more so. Why? Because in order to really get the thrills out of the 4.0 you need to get to higher revs which of course means higher speeds. The 4.0 red lines at - if I remember correctly - 78 mph in second gear (+/-). I can drive my 2.5 GTS lower in the rev range and still play at maximum torque at lower, considerably less jail worthy speeds.

Let the rebuttals begin.

MOO & FWIW

 

[JKavanagh94]

Since I commented first, and since it appears that this thread will not die on its own, I will add some more of my own thoughts. These thoughts have been posted before but what the heck.

The turbo 718s are awesome for most anything most people will be doing. They are incredible cars for the street, rural areas, essentially non-track usage. They have max torque consistently through the mid-range, meaning back roads find you more often than not right where you want to be in the rev range. NA 718s are in their element on the track because they get max torque generally at the higher end of their rev range. Does that mean you can't drive either of them in the other element? **** no!

Really, it's all up to what you want. Sound? I personally love the sound of my 2.5 GTS. Its a snarl, not a scream. BTW, this car is a beast on the road. You can use this car near its limits in a normal urban or rural setting but you will be risking license and jail time doing so. I'm pretty sure the same can be said about the 4.0 but only more so. Why? Because in order to really get the thrills out of the 4.0 you need to get to higher revs which of course means higher speeds. The 4.0 red lines at - if I remember correctly - 78 mph in second gear (+/-). I can drive my 2.5 GTS lower in the rev range and still play at maximum torque at lower, considerably less jail worthy speeds.

Let the rebuttals begin.

MOO & FWIW

Sorry for going over old ground and sounding like a broken record!

Thank you for your thoughts. That's great to hear from people like yourself that have the 2.5 GTS that the sound isn't much of an issue and it wont be a disappointment!
It has helped make my mind up that I will go for the 2.5 for the value that it represents in comparison to the 4.0.

In regards to spec, what would you say are the "must have's" when it comes to searching for one?

Appreciate your input

 

[rasetsu]

In regards to spec, what would you say are the "must have's" when it comes to searching for one?

GTS models have all the "must haves" standard. It may be a bit of a simplification but just pick your colors and choice of transmission.

 

[InigoMontoya]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice from people who have driven/owned a GTS.

I am completely new to the Porsche world and find myself in a fortunate position where I am looking to purchase a GTS. I am slightly torn between the 2.5 gts and the 4.0 gts based off some reviews I have seen online.

I know the benefits of the 4.0 are the sound, residual values and power delivery (from some reviews I have watched and read), however the 2.5 gts seems to represent good value and looks like performance wise there isn't much difference.

As I haven't owned a particularly fast car (currently have a mk 7 golf GTI), I know that a GTS will be a significant upgrade on anything I have previously driven. I mostly drive on the weekends and do the odd trip during the week when I am not in the office, however I am looking for something that will put a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Will be good to understand from you guys about the sound of the 2.5 GTS as I have heard mixed reviews on this and if I would notice any difference on a day to day basis, barring in mind I haven't really owned/driven a performance car previously.

Any thoughts and discussion would be greatly appreciated

Thanks guys!

Like you, I am new to the Porsche world and own a Mk7 GTI which I think is the greatest car for the money ever. I started my journey into getting a Cayman only considering the 981 NA motors and 4.0 motors and was going to purchase a GTS or GT4 but when time came to order a car, there was a freeze on all 4.0s due to a engine failures and around this time I saw a Boxster T on a showroom and noticed it had leather seats with SportsTex inserts, GT4 short shifter, GT car door loops etc. I was so taken by how focused the T was and how it felt like a GTI equivalent of the base Cayman that I decided to put my biases aside and drive it. In another stroke of luck, the Cayman T comes with the same 20mm drop suspension as the GTS and I have a steep driveway and I was so concerned it wouldn't clear that I asked if I could take the car home to try it out. This was a stroke of luck because I recall when I first started the 4 cylinder it sounded a big gruff, but 5 seconds later, it warmed into a great thup,thup,thup tone. I then drove it 30 minutes to my house and 30 minutes back. This long drive was critical because it allowed me to experience different sounds and rev ranges. When I came back to the dealer, I was sold, in love. The drive not only settled, it changed my mind. I am in love with this machine after 10 months and still find excuses to drive it and it rewards immensely. The 2.5 motor is even better, but at the time I was ordering 2.5 GTSs were selling for new car prices and I felt that if I was going to pay the same price, maybe I should wait for the 4.0, but when I found the T, that all went out the window as the T is basically a 2.0L GTS, brand new. The motor is slightly smaller, the brakes a little smaller, it has Sports-tex instead of Race-tex but it has the LSD, Sports Chrono with dynamic mounts, sports exhaust, blacked out everything, same suspension and headlights etc. No, I am not saying get a T over a GTS, just saying that the sound and driving dynamics are similar to the 2.5 when comparing to the T and it is very rewarding and I am very happy with the Turbo variant.

So I hope I convinced you that a long drive with both should be your goal to settle it. As far as ownership goes, I can share some personal opinions. NA cars are rare, so that makes the 4.0 really cool, on the other hand, around town the 2.5 might be more to your taste where open roads are limited in length. Another consideration is that if you plan to start hanging out with Porsche people, you should be ok going against the grain a bit. It can get a little fatiguing just being around other Porsche people hearing about how "terrible" the turbo motors are or asking you if it's a 4 or 6 cylinder as if that is all that matters. If you are like me where you like many cool cars and Porsche is not the end-all for you, then the turbo 4 variant is amazing. I hope you get to drive both and join the club!

 

[Treemagnet]

GTS models have all the "must haves" standard. It may be a bit of a simplification but just pick your colors and choice of transmission.

Absolutely concur.

Posted the following on a similar thread:

6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other….our departed ‘17 BS was faster at Harris Hill Raceway and our new BGTS is faster at Circuit of the Americas.​

​

Too busy enjoying tracking and avoiding the Armco to notice which engine sounds better…. and I couldn’t care less.​

​

718’s are the bomb!​