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MOD NOTE: This thread's content was originally part of the BMW Z4 thread. I started a new thread focused on the 2020 Toyota Supra. - Viffermike

Now that the Supra was announced, would any of you that was looking at a PDK Cayman have cross shopped the Supra? It seems like a better "value", but the lines look kind of cartoonish to me.
 

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Now that the Supra was announced, would any of you that was looking at a PDK Cayman have cross shopped the Supra? It seems like a better "value", but the lines look kind of cartoonish to me.
I will go further. What I see in the photos is an ugly car. It might look better in real life but at this point I would not even consider it.
 

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To my eye the new Supra looks better than the Z4, but "overdone". It is stunning but has too many facets. The rear view is very similar to the Cayman, but does not capture the classic beauty or subtlety of the Cayman. From a design standpoint, the Cayman is in a class by itself.

I wonder how the Supra will handle. Having the engine in the front, the Supra will lack the mid-engine DNA that we all love.

It is reported to have more power and sound better than the 718 Cayman/Boxster. With the "Soundaktor" disabled the sound of the turbocharged flat four is growing on me. The Supra is also reported to be hundreds of pounds heavier than the Cayman/Boxster.

It will be interesting to read the reviews of the new Supra. I am sure that it will be a great car.
 

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The rear diffuser with the F1 design is pretty cool. Interior and engine sound is 99% BMW :eek: Hope BMW got something out of that "partnership" as well?
 

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The supra looks pretty good. I hear most of the vent and such are not real. I think they could have made them real. It should have plenty of power. Dollar for dollar the supra should be a good buy. Keeping the price down will bring in people who feel the cayman boxster are out of reach for them. Should be highly tunable. A bit cheaper build quality , but I look forward to checking one out at car shows in the future. I like all cars . Variety is the spice of life. I'm sure those who buy one will enjoy it. If I didn't buy a 2019 CGTS I would consider one.
 

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To me the Supra styling is way, way , way over-designed. Too many sharp edges and curves.
 

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I admit bias (a lot) as I own a 718 CGTS but I don't like the Z4

and I hate the Supra

now if it looked like the concept images released a while back

concept



production version



the concept does look really good and I would have checked one of those out but the production car is a very poor pastiche of the concept - a bit like they had to make it fit the Z4 platform and compromised the looks totally went out the window. instead mean sleek sports car we got a pudgy mess.
 

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Don't get me started about Schmee and his ilk. Entitled, bought-and-paid-for bozos like him only have credibility because they are 'first' with showing stuff. I'll let you guys figure out how he and others get that stuff first. (Read: They either buy it themselves or are provided it in exchange for kind words/talking points and 'future considerations'. It's called 'service journalism', and is basically a marketing method. It's got virtually zero critical or factual value.)

As for the Supra ... what did you all expect? That FT-1 concept that @timlaw refers to was never going to make production in that form. It's far, far too extreme for a mass-produced car.

Also, Toyota's pedigree with sports-oriented cars is twofold:
- Light, agile cars with modest power (i.e. GT86, Celica, MR2, 2000GT)
- Heavier GT cars with higher power and luxury leanings (i.e. 2nd-4th-gen Supra, Lexus SC series)
There is no other category, really. It's never even been involved in selling so-called 'hot hatches' before the GR-edition Yaris went on sale to commemorate its WRC championship in 2016.

Toyota's motorsports pedigree is also very well defined: It only races to develop tech for commercial application. The moment it's not getting that benefit from a racing program, it pulls out. It does not race for brand augmentation, nor does it race for 'sexy' reasons. It's all about long-term product development.

That FT-1 was always a pipe dream.
 

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Don't get me started about Schmee and his ilk. Entitled, bought-and-paid-for bozos like him only have credibility because they are 'first' with showing stuff. I'll let you guys figure out how he and others get that stuff first. (Read: They either buy it themselves or are provided it in exchange for kind words/talking points and 'future considerations'. It's called 'service journalism', and is basically a marketing method. It's got virtually zero critical or factual value.)

As for the Supra ... what did you all expect? That FT-1 concept that @timlaw refers to was never going to make production in that form. It's far, far too extreme for a mass-produced car.

Also, Toyota's pedigree with sports-oriented cars is twofold:
- Light, agile cars with modest power (i.e. GT86, Celica, MR2, 2000GT)
- Heavier GT cars with higher power and luxury leanings (i.e. 2nd-4th-gen Supra, Lexus SC series)
There is no other category, really. It's never even been involved in selling so-called 'hot hatches' before the GR-edition Yaris went on sale to commemorate its WRC championship in 2016.

Toyota's motorsports pedigree is also very well defined: It only races to develop tech for commercial application. The moment it's not getting that benefit from a racing program, it pulls out. It does not race for brand augmentation, nor does it race for 'sexy' reasons. It's all about long-term product development.

That FT-1 was always a pipe dream.
I agree some stuff like the mirrors were extreme but the production version is so different and worse in every way that it is a shame

and the BMW "inspired" interior? I do mourn the lack of originality these days - should the new Vantage have an AMG engine and Mercedes interior stuff all over? I know the MB stuff is good but is it really an Aston?
 

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Not that I'm fond of the supra, but if you look at the design language, many styling cues from the prototype are in the final model. The fact it is based on a shared platform leads to common things in the interior, this is all cost driven. When Aston was under the Ford group they even used Volvo parts, like I said it's all cost driven.
 

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agreed Cupra - they have tacked aspects of the concept onto the Z4 platform but it just looks wrong and not a cohesive design like the concept

alfa did the same with the Brera coupe years back - stunning concept but horribly compromised in manufacture by using an existing Fiat platform and ended up a mess


I can accept switchgear, even gearboxes (everyone uses the ZF autobox for a reason) but isn't the engine the heart and soul of the car? that AMG lump is epic but it aint no Aston...
 

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Indeed the proportions of the car are not in relation to the design . Let the engine switch for the supra,be one of the biggest dissapointments for the old supra 2jz lovers, as you feel the same about the Austin ;)
 

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that's a good point too - last supra had a legendary Toyota motor but this one has a BMW lump which they haven't even bothered to de badge

big loss of heritage

Austin? I live about 5 miles from the old Austin plant - historic but not legendary save maybe for the original mini
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The supra looks pretty good. I hear most of the vent and such are not real. I think they could have made them real.
Agree with you about the fake vents on the Supra. Hopefully there will be aftermarket options to open them up. I love the functional design of the Cayman. I am so glad some clever people on this forum have figured out how to easily disable Soundaktor to make the Cayman 100% real/functional.
 

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last supra had a legendary Toyota motor but this one has a BMW lump which they haven't even bothered to de badge

One of the reasons the 2JZ engine was so legendary was the fact it was incredibly overbuilt.
I believe the JDM version was limited to 280hp by an agreement at the time between Japanese auto makers, but I have heard that the 2JZ engine with all stock internals was capable of withstanding up to 800hp, which is only underlines how overbuilt the engine was.
No auto maker these days would design an engine which is this overbuilt these days, so why not just go with a BMW engine if Toyota had no suitable engine in their current portfolio.


As for sharing the platform with BMW, this is a smart decision as this cuts costs significantly, but in my opinion it should not have limited the design they way it did.
Even though I am not a fan of the look of the new Supra, I must say it is disappointing that the production version is so far from the much more striking design of the concept version.


And as a former BMW owner the interior of the new Supra looks very familiar, not that there is anything wrong with BMW interiors, but they could have at least tried to make it stand out a little more.
 

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that's a good point too - last supra had a legendary Toyota motor but this one has a BMW lump which they haven't even bothered to de badge

big loss of heritage

Austin? I live about 5 miles from the old Austin plant - historic but not legendary save maybe for the original mini
-Facepalm- My bad, it was a typo, I meant Aston. BMC-Later Britisch Leyland also had a plant in [email protected] Seneffe (Mini and Austin Allegro) but they were shut down in 1981.
 
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