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I just ordered 295 30 20

Beautiful. 😍

Im not getting mine on her first dyno until the 3rd but my tuner Sam @ by_design has me running strong. I can tell you we ran a 570s and my car didn’t break a sweat. Running a big nozzle and gonna go bigger this week. I’m thinking my girls at about 470 wheel rn. I had a porfomance shop for 10 years with my husband now we do hi-line euros so that’s a little experience talking and a little bench racing (as my husband always says.)🤦🏽‍♀️😂 We will see. Either way my Farrah is faster then I ever expected to be and we haven’t even put the 6XX turbo on yet. 😬

I’m not trying to complete with anyone just so curious with the meth keeping the heat soak in check “how much power are our cars capable of?”
Oh and you know that is a 11.2 mph if you get everything else right. That’s a solid mph. 💜
 

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I think meth is the key on our platform. I ran a 570s the other night we took them up to 186 mph (it was 2am the hwy was pretty clear) and he could not pull me. He weighs about the same and they put down 500 or so wheel Ive read. I’m not saying my car is 500 wheel but at 23-24 psi and a bad ass pro Cobb tuner at the helm I ran with a 570s. 💁🏽‍♀️ I’m super curious after that race to see where she’s at. I’m guessing I’m at 460-470 wheel with the amount of meth I shove down her throat. I mean I’d have to be to hang with a car like that from 100 to just under 190 right? hard to say. All I can say is she’s fast and definitely a fun car: 💜💃🏼
Personally i am bit sceptical to meth, you have to tune the car and pull a lot of timing to take full advantage of the meth, and if you get some problems with the meth flow there is a big risk you blew the engine, i have seen it happen, so for me it feels safer with a E30 tune. But we are pusching the limits og the 718 platform, so my next step will probably be to upgrade the fuelsystem and larger turbos.
The most important thing is to have fun, and at my last trackday i had no problems to keep up and beat some of the GT3s,
 

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Personally i am bit sceptical to meth, you have to tune the car and pull a lot of timing to take full advantage of the meth, and if you get some problems with the meth flow there is a big risk you blew the engine, i have seen it happen, so for me it feels safer with a E30 tune. But we are pusching the limits og the 718 platform, so my next step will probably be to upgrade the fuelsystem and larger turbos.
The most important thing is to have fun, and at my last trackday i had no problems to keep up and beat some of the GT3s,
I think your misinformed a bit. You can actually run a lot more timing on meth injection. Not to mention it drops your air temperature significantly which so incredibly important for this platform since heat is the # one issue. As for issues with injection I can’t recall the amount of kits we have installed and in 20 years not a single one has failed. Now we have had clients come in our shop with leaking and multiple issues with their kits over the years and heard all the stories also but you got DIY’s installing them when most of them aren’t qualified to wire up a amp or stereo. So ya they definitely shouldn’t be installing a meth injection system and in every failed system it was a DIY installer. I personally have had mine on my 718 for two or 3 years now with about 10,000 miles or so of hard use. There is not one leak or headache. But we use steal beaded lines and soldier all my connections. Everything is still a risk though. I will actually be replacing my pump with filters just because soon. A few hundred dollars to have new stuff and no worries of failing parts. 💁🏽‍♀️
And that’s cool to hear about the GT3’s 💜

If you run low once in one of those turns.. boom!! So that part I get. Human error happens. But if the system is installed correctly you will never have issues there.
 

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I think meth is the key on our platform. I ran a 570s the other night we took them up to 186 mph (it was 2am the hwy was pretty clear) and he could not pull me. He weighs about the same and they put down 500 or so wheel Ive read. I’m not saying my car is 500 wheel but at 23-24 psi and a bad ass pro Cobb tuner at the helm I ran with a 570s. 💁🏽‍♀️ I’m super curious after that race to see where she’s at. I’m guessing I’m at 460-470 wheel with the amount of meth I shove down her throat. I mean I’d have to be to hang with a car like that from 100 to just under 190 right? hard to say. All I can say is she’s fast and definitely a fun car: 💜💃🏼
U could throw the kitchen sink at it if u fancy. Im pritty sure with the tte580 turbo upgrade on meth with very agressive timing could get u knocking on 500 on the wheels ?🤷🏽‍♂️

safey also another paramount to consider
Evrybody goal is different i guess

I personally would love another 20whp provided it delivers that at optimum efficiency

many incl myself already get heat soaked at hot circut days and top speed runs. Awaiting to see proven results on Ninemeister charge cooler upgrade.

i have My19 gts so its got opf, they say thers nothing to gain as stock system flows extremely well, however my plan is to go catless with opf delete all in the name of lower iat , just hope APR still offers testpipe file after the whole epa crackdown shenanigans u guys are having in the states

As is though it’s a noticeable butt hurt here with gt3/rs owners seeing a garden cayman match and outperform there supposedly superior cars
 

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U could throw the kitchen sink at it if u fancy. Im pritty sure with the tte580 turbo upgrade on meth with very agressive timing could get u knocking on 500 on the wheels ?🤷🏽‍♂️

safey also another paramount to consider
Evrybody goal is different i guess

I personally would love another 20whp provided it delivers that at optimum efficiency

many incl myself already get heat soaked at hot circut days and top speed runs. Awaiting to see proven results on Ninemeister charge cooler upgrade.

i have My19 gts so its got opf, they say thers nothing to gain as stock system flows extremely well, however my plan is to go catless with opf delete all in the name of lower iat , just hope APR still offers testpipe file after the whole epa crackdown shenanigans u guys are having in the states

As is though it’s a noticeable butt hurt here with gt3/rs owners seeing a garden cayman match and outperform there supposedly superior cars
I tried the kitchen sink amongst other things and it didn’t work. 💁🏽‍♀️😂 But yes catless is the way to go 💯. And after the cat that 4” pipe make sure it splits into “two” 2 1/2 not the stock 2 1/4 like a lot of the after market down pipes are (oddly enough same as stock.) From experience at higher boost levels that Y split turns into a restriction if it’s not atleast 2 1/2 to the right and 2 1/2 to the left. We have a 6XX prototype being made for my car as we speak so we will see. I’m more of a top speed girl. We take long random drives and when the roads are clear I like to see how fast I can go. In my 9YA I hit 203 mph on a APR 100 oct tune. My 718 best I’ve done is 189 and that’s not because she was done.. I just felt it was time to let off “we were movin!!” 🏎 I intend on breaking 200mph the next run I have an opportunity to make. I love the track too but nothing beats that 200mph feeling and your engine screaming as you rip through the air…all the time knowing you may be living your final moments. 💃🏼💜💜💜
 

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I tried the kitchen sink amongst other things and it didn’t work. 💁🏽‍♀️😂 But yes catless is the way to go 💯. And after the cat that 4” pipe make sure it splits into “two” 2 1/2 not the stock 2 1/4 like a lot of the after market down pipes are (oddly enough same as stock.) From experience at higher boost levels that Y split turns into a restriction if it’s not atleast 2 1/2 to the right and 2 1/2 to the left. We have a 6XX prototype being made for my car as we speak so we will see. I’m more of a top speed girl. We take long random drives and when the roads are clear I like to see how fast I can go. In my 9YA I hit 203 mph on a APR 100 oct tune. My 718 best I’ve done is 189 and that’s not because she was done.. I just felt it was time to let off “we were movin!!” 🏎 I intend on breaking 200mph the next run I have an opportunity to make. I love the track too but nothing beats that 200mph feeling and your engine screaming as you rip through the air…all the time knowing you may be living your final moments. 💃🏼💜💜💜
Hi, I'm late to this thread but use a GIAC tune to get to about 420HP for example. However, just wondering how you all tune or what you use to tune when you change the Fuel System components? I love your pursuit to push your car to these points and am following with great anticipation as I'm looking forward to trying more things myself. I've thought about the cooling aspects and upgrading the turbo on the 2.5 but haven't done so because I don't know enough about the tuning aspect to understand if it is something a tuner around Houston TX can do. Thanks for the advice in advance.
 

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Hi, I'm late to this thread but use a GIAC tune to get to about 420HP for example. However, just wondering how you all tune or what you use to tune when you change the Fuel System components? I love your pursuit to push your car to these points and am following with great anticipation as I'm looking forward to trying more things myself. I've thought about the cooling aspects and upgrading the turbo on the 2.5 but haven't done so because I don't know enough about the tuning aspect to understand if it is something a tuner around Houston TX can do. Thanks for the advice in advance.
This took me nearly an hour to write and I had the hubby make sure it was accurate. 😆 hopefully you like the info.

I am tunning with the Cobb accessport.. it’s better then anything out there imo... (as long as you have a solid tuner which we do.) Sam at by_design in Cali has been sending us files after we send him the logs and we had my car dialed in at 91 far above what anyone else’s out of the box tune was producing.


Our platforms limitations are 💯 due to heat soak. These 10% larger radiators and side intake heat exchangers won’t really help you run a lot more power just run the power of these box tunes more efficiently and safely (especially for track events.) My husband and I have seen this for ourselves with my 718 and clients cars. Not to say don’t go that route.. they help… but if your looking for “big power gains” water/alcohol injection is the only way to go.


The amount of power my car is putting down on 91 and injection (on the stock GTS Turbo) is hard to put into words… I was not expecting this kind of power and we are still getting more.💜 I don’t know the numbers yet and unfortunately the Dyno we will be on is a mustang Dyno but I can tell you at 23-24 psi my car ran with a 570s and they are about the same weight (approx) and 520hp give or take to the wheels (I’ve read.) . We took the race all the way into the high triple digits and it almost looked like I wasnt just hanging but pulling away a foot or two. Keep in mind this is all on a factory GTS Turbo.. and yes it’s holding that boost to redline. 🙌🏼 The Gts stock turbo is actually a pretty decent sized turbo.

I think most people would be more then happy where my cars at rn.

Sam’s tunes are the 💩 and after he is done with mine and see’s what works it’s gonna be even easier for everyone going this route to get some crazy power out of their 718s through him.

We are currently having a prototype turbo built. But that won’t be in for a month or two. My focus is to see what this car is capable of with the stock turbo then install the new one.

I’m sure a lot of people will have their opinions.. all I can say is everything I wrote her is based on mine and my husband’s experience the last 3 years and what has and hasn’t worked for us. We installed my snow kit 3 years ago with zero issues and have had nearly every tune in my car or a clients. And if I told you all how it’s mounted people would blow up this thread how we are doing it wrong. 🤦🏽‍♀️ ok.. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Before anyone asks we went from a ~10 to a ~14 nozzle due to the turbo said I’m not done yet feed me!!! So we gave it more. 🤷🏽‍♀️😂 and since that meant more water also we went 75/25 mix.

The 75% meth 25% water mix feels So that’s the trick not 50/50 because this engine hates water. 💧Tonight though we are trying the new “VP Boost Sauce Plus.” It’s 80% ethanol 20% water. They say it’s a 115 oct we will se plus that’s even less water. 😁 I think my Farrah is gonna love it. 🏎



I’ll update you on how that goes.
 

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Has anyone figured out a reasonable upgrade to the fuel system? Its really the main limiting factor for this platform.

-- Ed
Just my two cents but really don’t see more fuel being the issue. How many people tuned their car and ran out of fuel? 🤔 how many tuned their car and had to back up due to heat though? Fuel is not what keeps stopping us from making big power.. so why does that topic keep being brought up? The issue with this platform is heat. 🔥 What good is more fuel if the car can’t create any more power fully utilizing the stock fuel system it has (with out getting those IAT lowered.)
The alcohol injection meth/eth kills two birds with one stone with this platform.. it cools the IAT by 80+ degrees and gives it more fuel so you arnt maxing out the stock fuel system. Basically you could double the fuel and put this tte580 in this car at the beginning of this thread and your still gonna be stuck with 480 or so wheel max.

There is no room to increase the cooler much and the side heat exchangers etc. Not enough that you can say ”cool I’m gonna be able to tune for another 60 wheel hp now.”


Yes there are draw backs to injection but there are also many safety systems available that weren’t when we used to use this stuff.

Last but not least if fuel was the only issue I bet a IFC would fix that really quick.💁🏽‍♀️😂 It’s old school and shows how old I am 🤦🏽‍♀️ But they worked. It sucks but this is a platform that if you want 500-600 wheel alcohol is the only way… at-least atm. Please if anyone on here is laying down 540 whp without meth on a 95° day that’s track safe please let me know I’ll pull out my snow system tomorrow.

I’m new to the forum but we had a speed shop since 98’ and have been building stuff and trying different things to my car since I bought it new 3 years ago. If someone knows how to get 100° cooler charge temps please let me know. 🙏🏻
In the old days we would make a nos system that **** near froze the coolers. One thing to do would do that with both side heat exchanger but I think meth is the easier route.
 

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If you could put a bigger fuel system in, you could run E85 which is available on pump in many areas. The current fuel system will only allow up to about E30. @Ed @ EQT who you have responded to has more experience than anyone I know of on the limits of the fuel system since he runs E30 in his GTS and tunes it himself as he runs a workshop. If I were getting a Cobb pro tune, I would go to him. He also races his car at the track regularly testing his developments. You should research a little more on this forum before you assume you know more than anyone else.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I have extensive experience with meth injection (I developed systems for BMW N54/55 platforms with flow sensors and safeties in the tune to change the tune dependant on meth flow), as well as E85 (I have a track Subaru I run on E85 and have tuned many customer cars on E85). I would take E85 over meth injection any day.

IMHO, you only run meth as a bandaid to lack of fuel system capacity. It is a bandaid that allows you to get more fuel in when there are no easy solutions to get the stock fuel system to flow more as is the case on the 718 currently (and many direct injection cars). If a bigger fuel system was available for the 718, you could make similar power with E85 without the hassle and risk of meth. No need to install a seperate fuel delivery system that takes up boot space and stores highly flammable liquids essentially in the cabin of the car in the case of the 718. Just fill up the fuel tank with E85 and load up the applicable tune.

The 718 does have air charge cooling limits. There are many ways to improve this. Water injection (without meth) could do that. As well as larger radiators for the air cooler located in better locations. Water spray is another.
 

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If you could put a bigger fuel system in, you could run E85 which is available on pump in many areas. The current fuel system will only allow up to about E30. @Ed @ EQT who you have responded to has more experience than anyone I know of on the limits of the fuel system since he runs E30 in his GTS and tunes it himself as he runs a workshop. If I were getting a Cobb pro tune, I would go to him. He also races his car at the track regularly testing his developments. You should research a little more on this forum before you assume you know more than anyone else.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I have extensive experience with meth injection (I developed systems for BMW N54/55 platforms with flow sensors and safeties in the tune to change the tune dependant on meth flow), as well as E85 (I have a track Subaru I run on E85 and have tuned many customer cars on E85). I would take E85 over meth injection any day.

IMHO, you only run meth as a bandaid to lack of fuel system capacity. It is a bandaid that allows you to get more fuel in when there are no easy solutions to get the stock fuel system to flow more as is the case on the 718 currently (and many direct injection cars). If a bigger fuel system was available for the 718, you could make similar power with E85 without the hassle and risk of meth. No need to install a seperate fuel delivery system that takes up boot space and stores highly flammable liquids essentially in the cabin of the car in the case of the 718. Just fill up the fuel tank with E85 and load up the applicable tune.

The 718 does have air charge cooling limits. There are many ways to improve this. Water injection (without meth) could do that. As well as larger radiators for the air cooler located in better locations. Water spray is another.
So I Respect and understand you know your stuff definitely wish You guys would of helped us when we called you twice 2 years back to tune my car (but had zero intrest) but anyway sorry these cars do not like water the way other cars do. I’ve tried it and I know others that have. This car runs better with more meth and less water big time. Sam will back this up. We were tuning our shop cars back in the day on E85 so I get what your saying it’s great stuff but your also saying when it’s 120 out 6 months out of the year in vegas find e85 and use water to cool it down? What’s the point of that? Run meth and fill up at any gas station from here to nyc.

I totally agree with you though if you could pull up to a station in vegas and pump in e30 because my car is kinda a daily driver at times in between the 9YA and you got to find a station with e85 and mix gas’s correct? And the other issue with that is the clients we have that are tuned on E85 (track hawks and such) their is no E85 in vegas. One station theirs is E66 the other E72 🤦🏽‍♀️😂 it’s craziness. They literally have to use this thing to measure the content all the time. That’s not daily driver type stuff,.. not for me atleast. I fill up my tank when I fill up my gas actually I just check it everyonce in awhile at the house in the garage.
But yes filling up with e72 😉 (tuned for the gas stations we have here) would definitely trump meth for sure. But one other down side is on my way up to Reno this weekend id need to pull my tune out and the trip I took to sadonna a few weeks ago I would of had to do the same. 😥 what’s the point I might as well sell the car and buy something I can have fast on my road trips all the time because that’s 80% of my driving in this car. For me I built my car to have fun on the hwy and we take weekend road trips all the time… and that’s definitely when I want the power. So even with the ideal fuel system so you can run E85 it’s like finding race gas over in these parts it may be abundant were you are. Chasing gas sucks. The only way e85 works is you have a 91 or 93 tune in (and as long as you can find it then run the E85) I think this route is great for people who mainly use their car on a track or do t leave town. Even driving across town trying to a specific gas station is an issue for someone that works a lot I barely have time to eat now I got to go to the gas station half across town to get gas? . I want my car to always be fast as it is.
But I’m agreeing with you at the same tiMe 💯 because in a perfect world with e85 from here to Reno or even more gas stations local that is definitely the better way. We were tuning our shop cars on E85 as far back as 06 but still needed to cool IAT here in vegas. You answer to that is when it’s 120 out 6 months out of the year here **** near chase down e85 and use water to cool it down? What’s the point of that? Run meth and fill up at any gas station from here to nyc 12 months out of the year, it’s 122° out in the middle of the day and for 3 years I’m boosting with zero issues… and going to any chevron I want.
I’m not trying to be argumentative just sharing experiences and what I feel is practical atleast for me maybe not others and I think a lot of people that aren’t just looking for power on track days.

I apreciate all the insite and knowledge. 🙏🏻 Definitely don’t know as much as you we change brakes on Ferraris and Bentleys etc.. and tune ups and such. My husband and I manifested our performance shop years ago slowly into a euro maintenance buisness: so much less stress. 🤦🏽‍♀️😆 it’s a crazy world the performance world. It was like we were never closed.. on the dynos at 2am to get a car ready for an event, calls through out the night etc.. it’s just a very fast passed industry your in. Its always something right?
 

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If you could put a bigger fuel system in, you could run E85 which is available on pump in many areas. The current fuel system will only allow up to about E30. @Ed @ EQT who you have responded to has more experience than anyone I know of on the limits of the fuel system since he runs E30 in his GTS and tunes it himself as he runs a workshop. If I were getting a Cobb pro tune, I would go to him. He also races his car at the track regularly testing his developments. You should research a little more on this forum before you assume you know more than anyone else.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I have extensive experience with meth injection (I developed systems for BMW N54/55 platforms with flow sensors and safeties in the tune to change the tune dependant on meth flow), as well as E85 (I have a track Subaru I run on E85 and have tuned many customer cars on E85). I would take E85 over meth injection any day.

IMHO, you only run meth as a bandaid to lack of fuel system capacity. It is a bandaid that allows you to get more fuel in when there are no easy solutions to get the stock fuel system to flow more as is the case on the 718 currently (and many direct injection cars). If a bigger fuel system was available for the 718, you could make similar power with E85 without the hassle and risk of meth. No need to install a seperate fuel delivery system that takes up boot space and stores highly flammable liquids essentially in the cabin of the car in the case of the 718. Just fill up the fuel tank with E85 and load up the applicable tune.

The 718 does have air charge cooling limits. There are many ways to improve this. Water injection (without meth) could do that. As well as larger radiators for the air cooler located in better locations. Water spray is another.
If you could put a bigger fuel system in, you could run E85 which is available on pump in many areas. The current fuel system will only allow up to about E30. @Ed @ EQT who you have responded to has more experience than anyone I know of on the limits of the fuel system since he runs E30 in his GTS and tunes it himself as he runs a workshop. If I were getting a Cobb pro tune, I would go to him. He also races his car at the track regularly testing his developments. You should research a little more on this forum before you assume you know more than anyone else.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I have extensive experience with meth injection (I developed systems for BMW N54/55 platforms with flow sensors and safeties in the tune to change the tune dependant on meth flow), as well as E85 (I have a track Subaru I run on E85 and have tuned many customer cars on E85). I would take E85 over meth injection any day.

IMHO, you only run meth as a bandaid to lack of fuel system capacity. It is a bandaid that allows you to get more fuel in when there are no easy solutions to get the stock fuel system to flow more as is the case on the 718 currently (and many direct injection cars). If a bigger fuel system was available for the 718, you could make similar power with E85 without the hassle and risk of meth. No need to install a seperate fuel delivery system that takes up boot space and stores highly flammable liquids essentially in the cabin of the car in the case of the 718. Just fill up the fuel tank with E85 and load up the applicable tune.

The 718 does have air charge cooling limits. There are many ways to improve this. Water injection (without meth) could do that. As well as larger radiators for the air cooler located in better locations. Water spray is another.
If you could put a bigger fuel system in, you could run E85 which is available on pump in many areas. The current fuel system will only allow up to about E30. @Ed @ EQT who you have responded to has more experience than anyone I know of on the limits of the fuel system since he runs E30 in his GTS and tunes it himself as he runs a workshop. If I were getting a Cobb pro tune, I would go to him. He also races his car at the track regularly testing his developments. You should research a little more on this forum before you assume you know more than anyone else.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I have extensive experience with meth injection (I developed systems for BMW N54/55 platforms with flow sensors and safeties in the tune to change the tune dependant on meth flow), as well as E85 (I have a track Subaru I run on E85 and have tuned many customer cars on E85). I would take E85 over meth injection any day.

IMHO, you only run meth as a bandaid to lack of fuel system capacity. It is a bandaid that allows you to get more fuel in when there are no easy solutions to get the stock fuel system to flow more as is the case on the 718 currently (and many direct injection cars). If a bigger fuel system was available for the 718, you could make similar power with E85 without the hassle and risk of meth. No need to install a seperate fuel delivery system that takes up boot space and stores highly flammable liquids essentially in the cabin of the car in the case of the 718. Just fill up the fuel tank with E85 and load up the applicable tune.

The 718 does have air charge cooling limits. There are many ways to improve this. Water injection (without meth) could do that. As well as larger radiators for the air cooler located in better locations. Water spray is another.


I kinda skimmed your response earlier because I had to close the shop then replied. But I just read this all the way through. Trust me I can show you videos of 10 second and 9 second cars on our Dyno we tuned and built in our shop 20 years ago. I can probably weld circle around you too. You need to look into who we are before you assume I need to read a forum to gain knowledge and be educated what a joke. 🤦🏽‍♀️ There are performances cars on the road today that got produced based on our research and development we were ground floor. But really not interested in a pissing contest with someone I don’t even know and don’t even know me. Really childish comments guy.

I didn’t come on here for myself i literally thought it may be cool showing people what has worked for me and what hasn’t. I thought it may be fun what was I thinking. But honestly people like you have made being on her miserable. Probably done here tbh. Thought I was doing a good thing showing what had worked and don’t. Signing off.

Anyone that wants to see my dyno in two weeks and such follow my car page on IG. This type of stuff everyday is getting old. Exactly why we moved in to $400,000 exotics this industry is like high school for some you and it ruins it for the rest.
Oh and by the way if you truly worked for bmw and their M team my husband and I would know you. And people that are truly brilliant don’t come at people the way you do, just so you know.💁🏽‍♀️ Great people don’t need to say why they are great because others do it for them and they don’t insult people they have no clue of. 🤦🏽‍♀️

Mor you respond to this you are responding to hear yourself talk or make yourself feel better I will t see it I really don’t need to be here.


@raggdolls_718
 

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You do you. I was not the one who said there was no need for a fuel system upgrade in this platform. Just because it makes no sense for your unique situation does not mean others should not be interested in it. I have a flex fuel sensor in my Subaru. I have a gas station near me where I can fill E85 any time I like. It reads E85-90 on my flex sensor every fill. If I could run my 718 on that fuel with a fuel system upgrade, I would be very happy.

I used to run Meth in a BMW N54. It made good power. But what a pain sourcing meth, mixing it, and filling it more often than petrol. E85 in my fuel tank as normal fuel is so much better. Similar performance increases. I live in Sydney Australia. I know about hot weather. E85 has a great cooling effect.
 

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If you could put a bigger fuel system in, you could run E85 which is available on pump in many areas. The current fuel system will only allow up to about E30. @Ed @ EQT who you have responded to has more experience than anyone I know of on the limits of the fuel system since he runs E30 in his GTS and tunes it himself as he runs a workshop. If I were getting a Cobb pro tune, I would go to him. He also races his car at the track regularly testing his developments. You should research a little more on this forum before you assume you know more than anyone else.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I have extensive experience with meth injection (I developed systems for BMW N54/55 platforms with flow sensors and safeties in the tune to change the tune dependant on meth flow), as well as E85 (I have a track Subaru I run on E85 and have tuned many customer cars on E85). I would take E85 over meth injection any day.

IMHO, you only run meth as a bandaid to lack of fuel system capacity. It is a bandaid that allows you to get more fuel in when there are no easy solutions to get the stock fuel system to flow more as is the case on the 718 currently (and many direct injection cars). If a bigger fuel system was available for the 718, you could make similar power with E85 without the hassle and risk of meth. No need to install a seperate fuel delivery system that takes up boot space and stores highly flammable liquids essentially in the cabin of the car in the case of the 718. Just fill up the fuel tank with E85 and load up the applicable tune.

The 718 does have air charge cooling limits. There are many ways to improve this. Water injection (without meth) could do that. As well as larger radiators for the air cooler located in better locations. Water spray is another.
By the way I thought I was talking to EQT when I left the long response about your knowledge thought we were having a cool fun civil discussion before I reread what you wrote.
 

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Just my two cents but really don’t see more fuel being the issue. How many people tuned their car and ran out of fuel? 🤔 how many tuned their car and had to back up due to heat though? Fuel is not what keeps stopping us from making big power.. so why does that topic keep being brought up? The issue with this platform is heat. 🔥 What good is more fuel if the car can’t create any more power fully utilizing the stock fuel system it has (with out getting those IAT lowered.)
The alcohol injection meth/eth kills two birds with one stone with this platform.. it cools the IAT by 80+ degrees and gives it more fuel so you arnt maxing out the stock fuel system. Basically you could double the fuel and put this tte580 in this car at the beginning of this thread and your still gonna be stuck with 480 or so wheel max.

There is no room to increase the cooler much and the side heat exchangers etc. Not enough that you can say ”cool I’m gonna be able to tune for another 60 wheel hp now.”


Yes there are draw backs to injection but there are also many safety systems available that weren’t when we used to use this stuff.

Last but not least if fuel was the only issue I bet a IFC would fix that really quick.💁🏽‍♀️😂 It’s old school and shows how old I am 🤦🏽‍♀️ But they worked. It sucks but this is a platform that if you want 500-600 wheel alcohol is the only way… at-least atm. Please if anyone on here is laying down 540 whp without meth on a 95° day that’s track safe please let me know I’ll pull out my snow system tomorrow.

I’m new to the forum but we had a speed shop since 98’ and have been building stuff and trying different things to my car since I bought it new 3 years ago. If someone knows how to get 100° cooler charge temps please let me know. 🙏🏻
In the old days we would make a nos system that **** near froze the coolers. One thing to do would do that with both side heat exchanger but I think meth is the easier route.
Fueling is absolutely a limitation on this engine. I'm pushing the factory fuel system right to the limits and beyond sometimes on my stock turbo GTS. I can barely get away with E25-E30 ethanol mixes, and even on 100 octane I'm running lower than stock rail pressure in the mid range and am right against the limits up to about 6500RPM. And this is all with the stock turbo and running significantly leaner AFR's than I'd prefer. The stock turbo has a good bit of room in it but fueling just isn't there. The limitation is the HPFP... the low side has plenty of flow for about 600whp on E85.

FWIW, I have no issues with heat. Yes my IAT's get hot on track, but with enough octane its not much of an issue and my power levels stay fairly consistent with no limp modes or anything of the sort. And that's through 20 minute sessions in 100F+ weather.

WMI is a possible solution but it has major drawbacks in terms of even spray distribution and potential points of failure. I've implemented and tuned countless WMI systems on many different applications. They can work, but they're never perfect and they always introduce a significant risk factor. This is especially true when they're used to supplement fuel for an inadequate fuel system. It's certainly an option, just not a great one for the average driver. This is of course my personal opinion.

What's an "IFC"?

-- Ed
 

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So I Respect and understand you know your stuff definitely wish You guys would of helped us when we called you twice 2 years back to tune my car (but had zero intrest) but anyway sorry these cars do not like water the way other cars do. I’ve tried it and I know others that have. This car runs better with more meth and less water big time. Sam will back this up. We were tuning our shop cars back in the day on E85 so I get what your saying it’s great stuff but your also saying when it’s 120 out 6 months out of the year in vegas find e85 and use water to cool it down? What’s the point of that? Run meth and fill up at any gas station from here to nyc.

I totally agree with you though if you could pull up to a station in vegas and pump in e30 because my car is kinda a daily driver at times in between the 9YA and you got to find a station with e85 and mix gas’s correct? And the other issue with that is the clients we have that are tuned on E85 (track hawks and such) their is no E85 in vegas. One station theirs is E66 the other E72 🤦🏽‍♀️😂 it’s craziness. They literally have to use this thing to measure the content all the time. That’s not daily driver type stuff,.. not for me atleast. I fill up my tank when I fill up my gas actually I just check it everyonce in awhile at the house in the garage.
But yes filling up with e72 😉 (tuned for the gas stations we have here) would definitely trump meth for sure. But one other down side is on my way up to Reno this weekend id need to pull my tune out and the trip I took to sadonna a few weeks ago I would of had to do the same. 😥 what’s the point I might as well sell the car and buy something I can have fast on my road trips all the time because that’s 80% of my driving in this car. For me I built my car to have fun on the hwy and we take weekend road trips all the time… and that’s definitely when I want the power. So even with the ideal fuel system so you can run E85 it’s like finding race gas over in these parts it may be abundant were you are. Chasing gas sucks. The only way e85 works is you have a 91 or 93 tune in (and as long as you can find it then run the E85) I think this route is great for people who mainly use their car on a track or do t leave town. Even driving across town trying to a specific gas station is an issue for someone that works a lot I barely have time to eat now I got to go to the gas station half across town to get gas? . I want my car to always be fast as it is.
But I’m agreeing with you at the same tiMe 💯 because in a perfect world with e85 from here to Reno or even more gas stations local that is definitely the better way. We were tuning our shop cars on E85 as far back as 06 but still needed to cool IAT here in vegas. You answer to that is when it’s 120 out 6 months out of the year here **** near chase down e85 and use water to cool it down? What’s the point of that? Run meth and fill up at any gas station from here to nyc 12 months out of the year, it’s 122° out in the middle of the day and for 3 years I’m boosting with zero issues… and going to any chevron I want.
I’m not trying to be argumentative just sharing experiences and what I feel is practical atleast for me maybe not others and I think a lot of people that aren’t just looking for power on track days.

I apreciate all the insite and knowledge. 🙏🏻 Definitely don’t know as much as you we change brakes on Ferraris and Bentleys etc.. and tune ups and such. My husband and I manifested our performance shop years ago slowly into a euro maintenance buisness: so much less stress. 🤦🏽‍♀️😆 it’s a crazy world the performance world. It was like we were never closed.. on the dynos at 2am to get a car ready for an event, calls through out the night etc.. it’s just a very fast passed industry your in. Its always something right?
I think this reply was directed at me. I'm not sure what shop you're from, but if you called 2 years ago about tuning a Porsche, I likely declined because I did not have enough experience and testing with the platform at the time to feel confident in remote tuning your car. I have since done extensive R&D and have been working very closely with Cobb to expand and refine the Porsche tuning suite. I've also gained hundreds of hours of experience on the 718 and 991.2 including dyno, street, and track abuse in many varying conditions. I am now at the point where I feel comfortable with these engines and have been offering remote tuning with much success. I'd be happy to chat if you guys need any help.

Thanks
-- Ed
 

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Fueling is absolutely a limitation on this engine. I'm pushing the factory fuel system right to the limits and beyond sometimes on my stock turbo GTS. I can barely get away with E25-E30 ethanol mixes, and even on 100 octane I'm running lower than stock rail pressure in the mid range and am right against the limits up to about 6500RPM. And this is all with the stock turbo and running significantly leaner AFR's than I'd prefer. The stock turbo has a good bit of room in it but fueling just isn't there. The limitation is the HPFP... the low side has plenty of flow for about 600whp on E85.

FWIW, I have no issues with heat. Yes my IAT's get hot on track, but with enough octane its not much of an issue and my power levels stay fairly consistent with no limp modes or anything of the sort. And that's through 20 minute sessions in 100F+ weather.

WMI is a possible solution but it has major drawbacks in terms of even spray distribution and potential points of failure. I've implemented and tuned countless WMI systems on many different applications. They can work, but they're never perfect and they always introduce a significant risk factor. This is especially true when they're used to supplement fuel for an inadequate fuel system. It's certainly an option, just not a great one for the average driver. This is of course my personal opinion.

What's an "IFC"?

-- Ed
Do you have any plans to sell a upgraded HPFP?, if you are let me know, it would be fun to have something to look forward to for the next season.
 

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Do you have any plans to sell a upgraded HPFP?, if you are let me know, it would be fun to have something to look forward to for the next season.
I’m actively researching possible solutions, but so far I haven’t come up with anything reasonable. I still have a couple possible leads to explore. Adding port injection would be really cool, but would end up being fairly complex and pricy, especially if we want to try to integrate it with the factory ECU. Then of course, we have to find the limitations of the stock internals.

— Ed
 
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