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Discussion Starter #1
Unfortunately I had an accident with my 2018 718 CGTS during a track session at the Bahrain International Circuit. I was doing a short session at the track (30 minutes session) and after 25 minutes of tracking the brake failed, I was at the straight lane and when I had to break and take the turn, there was no brake at all, i tried pressing couple of times but there was nothing, so my car went into the track gravel and i had to downshifts with the paddles to slowdown the car before I hit the track fence at the end, which causes the damages you see in the photo. Unfortunately my insurance company does not cover the damages because the accident happend inside the track. The car now sit at the dealer to assist the damages. I asked them to check the car log to see if there is any brake technical failure, I did not see any warning messages before or during the track session, it just happened suddenly (zero brake ). I appreciate your input in what might caused this issue. the car has 27,000 km with almost 1 year and a half of ownership (still under warranty), last service done at 15,000 km at Porsche dealer.
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Yikes! Sorry to see!
 

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Curious whether you have tracked the car before and how many times. If numerous, changing brake fluid is a good idea. Did they do that at your last service or since? Sorry about the accident. Is track insurance available in Bahrain?
 

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It sounds like you were having a lot of fun and going very hard to make the brakes suddenly fade like that.

I would have thought you would have gotten a little more warning. I know a lot of other people have been tracking with the OEM brakes without such catastrophic failure.

I wonder if it is an issue with old brake fluid and moisture absorption or I'm assuming it is a lot hotter in Bahrain so maybe that had something to do with it and maybe a bit long since your last service.

Perhaps worth upgrading to racing fluid in the future and at least changing to the larger Giro Disc brake rotor upgrade to assist with cooling.

Looks like you will be up for two new bumpers and fenders at least. I'm assuming underneath everything is still ok.

How was the car otherwise?
 

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I’m so sorry! That’s my nightmare about going to the track. Do they require a “tech inspection” prior to driving on track in Bahrain?

I’ve run 5 track days on OEM pads and brakes without even the slightest hint of fade. Granted, it was not extremely warm on any of those days.

As others mentioned, I’m curious about your brake fluid condition and outside temperature.
 

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So sorry to hear about this.
in most cases, sudden loss of pedal is due to overheating fluids and/or failed pads
At 27K kms were your pads still original and what condition were they in before the session?
If original I would suspect they might have been getting down.

As others have mentioned the age of the fluids as well as what type of fluid were you using?
A fluid designed for the high heat on track is recommended instead of OE fluid.
 

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My condolences!

As others have mentioned the age of the fluids as well as what type of fluid were you using?
A fluid designed for the high heat on track is recommended instead of OE fluid.
My PCA region strongly recommends high temp fluid, no more than six months old. Sooner if it's tracked a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Curious whether you have tracked the car before and how many times. If numerous, changing brake fluid is a good idea. Did they do that at your last service or since? Sorry about the accident. Is track insurance available in Bahrain?
yes I did track the car before, 3 times last year, all with 30 minutes session. last service they only changed oil and oil filter. I have never changed the brake fluid since I took delivery of my car jun-2018.
there is no track insurance available.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It sounds like you were having a lot of fun and going very hard to make the brakes suddenly fade like that.

I would have thought you would have gotten a little more warning. I know a lot of other people have been tracking with the OEM brakes without such catastrophic failure.

I wonder if it is an issue with old brake fluid and moisture absorption or I'm assuming it is a lot hotter in Bahrain so maybe that had something to do with it and maybe a bit long since your last service.

Perhaps worth upgrading to racing fluid in the future and at least changing to the larger Giro Disc brake rotor upgrade to assist with cooling.

Looks like you will be up for two new bumpers and fenders at least. I'm assuming underneath everything is still ok.

How was the car otherwise?
no warning signs, I kept checking after every lap.
Regarding the weather, its cold here nowadays, around 10-15 degree, this is the only time the track is open. during the summer, the track is closed, because the temperature reaches 40-45 degree. I was following Porsche recommendations for the service which is every 15,000 km or one year.

I hope nothing wrong underneath the car, however, radiator water was leaking though .

the car is fantastic at the track, I was so impressed with the car capabilities. however now I have a brake phobia😂
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I’m so sorry! That’s my nightmare about going to the track. Do they require a “tech inspection” prior to driving on track in Bahrain?

I’ve run 5 track days on OEM pads and brakes without even the slightest hint of fade. Granted, it was not extremely warm on any of those days.

As others mentioned, I’m curious about your brake fluid condition and outside temperature.
they do just quick inspection, to check the tyres and if there is any leakage underneath the car, but no they did not check brake fluid.

its winter here now, for us at least, 10-15 degree that day. there was some light rain that day. but not a problem at the track.

I did not had any problems with the brakes for the last track sessions or this one for the whole 25 minutes, just the last lap this happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So sorry to hear about this.
in most cases, sudden loss of pedal is due to overheating fluids and/or failed pads
At 27K kms were your pads still original and what condition were they in before the session?
If original I would suspect they might have been getting down.

As others have mentioned the age of the fluids as well as what type of fluid were you using?
A fluid designed for the high heat on track is recommended instead of OE fluid.
OEM pads, did not change them since car delivery, no waning signs pops up to change them, I did one-track session then my 15,000km service was due, ,during the service they say its still ok. I did 2 more sessions after that service, all short ones 30 minutes sessions.
 

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Before going to track, at a minimum,

1. Change your brake fluid to a high temp fluid. 6 months is a good rule of thumb.
2. Make sure your pads have more than 50% life, and check on them after each session. If you have PTV the car eats rear brakes like crazy.

Ideally you'd use track pads and swap to slotted rotors as well but it is possible to manage with just high temp fluid and an otherwise stock setup.
 

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Unfortunately I had an accident with my 2018 718 CGTS during a track session at the Bahrain International Circuit. I was doing a short session at the track (30 minutes session) and after 25 minutes of tracking the brake failed, I was at the straight lane and when I had to break and take the turn, there was no brake at all, i tried pressing couple of times but there was nothing, so my car went into the track gravel and i had to downshifts with the paddles to slowdown the car before I hit the track fence at the end, which causes the damages you see in the photo. Unfortunately my insurance company does not cover the damages because the accident happend inside the track. The car now sit at the dealer to assist the damages. I asked them to check the car log to see if there is any brake technical failure, I did not see any warning messages before or during the track session, it just happened suddenly (zero brake ).
Very sorry to hear about your experience and glad you are OK!

Your story sounds similar to a friend in a modern BMW at a track (with standard pads) whereby the factory brake system was helping to compensate for brake fade until it could no longer compensate and my friend found he had no brakes at the end of the straight and luckily the gravel trap stopped him.

Therefore I suspect something similar happened to you whereby the PSM (which includes: ABS, MSR, ABD, pre-charging of the brake system, and brake assist) was compensating for the the gradual brake fade - until it couldn't - and you found yourself suddenly without brakes.

Hopefully Porsche can check your logs to determine what happened in your circumstance.
 

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Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago, I crashed a supercharged M3, when the brakes stopped working in the end og of the straight doing 200+km/h.
In my case some metal where stuck between the wheel and the brake caliper, and punched a hole in the brake caliper
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago, I crashed a supercharged M3, when the brakes stopped working in the end og of the straight doing 200+km/h.
In my case some metal where stuck between the wheel and the brake caliper, and punched a hole in the brake caliper
Yes similar situation, I was doing 200+ km/h and at the end of the straight line the brakes gone.
This is also possible that a metal stuck between the brake calliper and the wheel. I'm waiting for Porsche response.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Before going to track, at a minimum,

1. Change your brake fluid to a high temp fluid. 6 months is a good rule of thumb.
2. Make sure your pads have more than 50% life, and check on them after each session. If you have PTV the car eats rear brakes like crazy.

Ideally you'd use track pads and swap to slotted rotors as well but it is possible to manage with just high temp fluid and an otherwise stock setup.
thanks for the tips.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Very sorry to hear about your experience and glad you are OK!

Your story sounds similar to a friend in a modern BMW at a track (with standard pads) whereby the factory brake system was helping to compensate for brake fade until it could no longer compensate and my friend found he had no brakes at the end of the straight and luckily the gravel trap stopped him.

Therefore I suspect something similar happened to you whereby the PSM (which includes: ABS, MSR, ABD, pre-charging of the brake system, and brake assist) was compensating for the the gradual brake fade - until it couldn't - and you found yourself suddenly without brakes.

Hopefully Porsche can check your logs to determine what happened in your circumstance.
thanks will keep you posted once I hear back from Porsche.
 

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... there was no brake at all, i tried pressing couple of times but there was nothing, ...
View attachment 25077
I have no experience where I have driven that hard but even with very overheated front and rear brakes and the resultant brake fade, I would still expect at least some, albeit ineffective, very seriously degraded braking, not nothing. Also both rear and front brakes use fully redundant systems including fluid. So, I am curious what failure totally and simultaneously took out both redundant systems. Maybe very overheated brakes do indeed feel like nothing is happening but I do not have the experience to know that.
 
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