[mattkidd93]

So I just came across this on my morning YouTube search.

JCR

First impressions wow... it no longer sounds like it’s being strangled. But surely they must have removed the GPF???

Apparently not! Just a bolt on silencer swap... I’m sold!!

Perhaps this also fits the new 4.0 GTS?

 

[alfaguy]

Yea, I'm sure this will be no problem at your next MOT inspection!!

 

[Turki_GTS]

Anyone know of I will lose Porsche warranty after installing JCR exhaust system ?

 

[sobiloff]

What this shows is that the GPFs are essentially a couple of big mufflers, so no need for the (now redundant) traditional muffler. This seems like it'd be an excellent solution for those areas of the world that require functional GPFs.

@Turki_GTS I don't believe that changing just the muffler would invalidate your warranty, at least in the USA. I don't know about the consumer protections available to you where you live, though.

While I really like the sound they're getting, it makes me wonder if it's the right approach for markets where GPFs aren't (yet) required. We've seen the slower performance specs emerging across the line when the GPFs are introduced, and we've heard the interviews with AP where he says the GPFs create significant backpressure and require a unique tune. We also know even the "inert" GPFs produce the same amount of backpressure so that Porsche can use the same engine tune globally.

I'm thinking that in markets where GPFs aren't required it might be better to remove the inert GPFs and optimize the tune. This will drop significant weight and likely return performance back to the pre-GPF levels (or better, of course, depending on how good the tune is). I haven't seen a system like that yet, but it's very early days for the non-GPF markets.

 

[Graustark]

What this shows is that the GPFs are essentially a couple of big mufflers, so no need for the (now redundant) traditional muffler. This seems like it'd be an excellent solution for those areas of the world that require functional GPFs.

@Turki_GTS I don't believe that changing just the muffler would invalidate your warranty, at least in the USA. I don't know about the consumer protections available to you where you live, though.

While I really like the sound they're getting, it makes me wonder if it's the right approach for markets where GPFs aren't (yet) required. We've seen the slower performance specs emerging across the line when the GPFs are introduced, and we've heard the interviews with AP where he says the GPFs create significant backpressure and require a unique tune. We also know even the "inert" GPFs produce the same amount of backpressure so that Porsche can use the same engine tune globally.

I'm thinking that in markets where GPFs aren't required it might be better to remove the inert GPFs and optimize the tune. This will drop significant weight and likely return performance back to the pre-GPF levels (or better, of course, depending on how good the tune is). I haven't seen a system like that yet, but it's very early days for the non-GPF markets.

I am definitely hoping for what you suggested in that last paragraph. Either it is relatively inert (not punishing performance), or at least changeable in the US market without a code issue.

 

[Zydi]

Speaking for Europe; Without a so called ABE (allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis) with a E-certification label on your tuning item (exhaust, wheels, aerodynamic components,etc) you will lose your general driving permit for your car. As a consequence you will most probably also lose your warranty of the car. In case of an incident (engine damage) this might have a severe impact as well in case of an accident where the insurance company can ask for regress or refuse any payment. So no risk I ever would want to carry!

Removing a GPF is therefore an absolut no go if you don’t want to get in trouble and maintain the permit for public roads. If a tuner is providing a model specific ABE with the required E-label you are good to go (will never happen with a GPF disable)

I’m curious if JCR (located in the UK and falling under these regulations) is providing an ABE for this exhaust. If not the tuning market at least for Europe will massively narrow down.

 

[alfaguy]

The Swiss will also object.....

 

[Westcoaster]

I have been following this system since it was announced, JCR has hinted at a decent performance increase (-20hp) with the GPF still in place, but as has already been mentioned, in those locations where the GPF is not required what additional gains could be had with its removal?

JCR has stated that the system is modular, so if an intermediate pipe came available to replace the section between the catalytic converter and the saddle muffler, you should be able to add it after the fact, giving a much freer flowing exhaust.

 

[DriveInHouston]

Speaking for Europe; Without a so called ABE (allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis) with a E-certification label on your tuning item (exhaust, wheels, aerodynamic components,etc) you will lose your general driving permit for your car. As a consequence you will most probably also lose your warranty of the car. In case of an incident (engine damage) this might have a severe impact as well in case of an accident where the insurance company can ask for regress or refuse any payment. So no risk I ever would want to carry!

Removing a GPF is therefore an absolut no go if you don’t want to get in trouble and maintain the permit for public roads. If a tuner is providing a model specific ABE with the required E-label you are good to go (will never happen with a GPF disable)

I’m curious if JCR (located in the UK and falling under these regulations) is providing an ABE for this exhaust. If not the tuning market at least for Europe will massively narrow down.

Isn't the UK Brexiting?

Maybe they will not keep the European Bureaucratic Regulations and have a time gap before they make up their own!... Then you might get by with a tune which will be grandfathered

 

[Zydi]

Isn't the UK Brexiting?

Maybe they will not keep the European Bureaucratic Regulations and have a time gap before they make up their own!... Then you might get by with a tune which will be grandfathered

See, that‘s funny. they live on an island and maybe they can sell to the island. But it will be hard for them to sell to the rest of Europe if they are not following the European bureaucracy.

 

[Turki_GTS]

What this shows is that the GPFs are essentially a couple of big mufflers, so no need for the (now redundant) traditional muffler. This seems like it'd be an excellent solution for those areas of the world that require functional GPFs.

@Turki_GTS I don't believe that changing just the muffler would invalidate your warranty, at least in the USA. I don't know about the consumer protections available to you where you live, though.

While I really like the sound they're getting, it makes me wonder if it's the right approach for markets where GPFs aren't (yet) required. We've seen the slower performance specs emerging across the line when the GPFs are introduced, and we've heard the interviews with AP where he says the GPFs create significant backpressure and require a unique tune. We also know even the "inert" GPFs produce the same amount of backpressure so that Porsche can use the same engine tune globally.

I'm thinking that in markets where GPFs aren't required it might be better to remove the inert GPFs and optimize the tune. This will drop significant weight and likely return performance back to the pre-GPF levels (or better, of course, depending on how good the tune is). I haven't seen a system like that yet, but it's very early days for the non-GPF markets.

when I asked my Porsche SA about after market exhaust, he told me straight you will lose your warranty, but I'm not sure if he told me this based on facts, he told me also that a customer were not grantees extended warranty because he paint his car in non-authorized Porsche dealer.
Here in Saudi Arabia, we always receive our cars in Euro specs, with some minor modifications such as additional central radiator to deal with the heat here. So GPF is there, although is not required by law.

 

[Westcoaster]

when I asked my Porsche SA about after market exhaust, he told me straight you will lose your warranty, but I'm not sure if he told me this based on facts, he told me also that a customer were not grantees extended warranty because he paint his car in non-authorized Porsche dealer.
Here in Saudi Arabia, we always receive our cars in Euro specs, with some minor modifications such as additional central radiator to deal with the heat here. So GPF is there, although is not required by law.

I think that there may be two things at play here, extended warranty and invalidating a warranty... I too was told that alterations to certain aspects of the car would mean the Porsche may not accept it as eligible for a warranty extension, essentially the car must be as delivered from the factory for that model.

Denying warranty because of modifications is another subject, and to be clear the final decision on coverage rests with Porsche however I have seen some leniency around this, for example, changing the bulbs in the headlight will not void an engine warranty, but if those bulbs now melt the headlight cover you will not be covered. Exhaust changes may meet with resistance depending what they are, new tips are probably OK, cat-back may be as well, changing everything from the engine back probably not. It is a grey area and from my experience has a lot to do with the servicing dealer and how they present it to Porsche.

I think that the best way to proceed is that what ever you do it could void warranty coverage so it would be best to confirm any changes that you are planning before you proceed, if you make changes that you know are going to be a concern, or you make changes without first checking then you are on your own.

 

[DriveInHouston]

...confirm in writing I may add...

In the olden days, putting in a freer exhaust allowed the NA engine to breath better and gain some horsepower too!... Everyone was happy and modifying an exhaust was no issue for warranty. IIRR in the 60s-70s the old Group 1 racing was unmodified stock cars, and cars with modified exhausts and shock absorbers. Group 2 and above dealt with more 'interesting mods' and had very strict and well defined rules. I remember a big controversy when someone I knew brought an Alfa with polished intakes and the race officials kept kicking him to a higher group.

Now, we have no idea what a changed exhaust will do. Will it affect the turbine with higher temperatures? Lower temperatures? Higher RPM? Say you bring the car in with a blown turbo. Does Porsche stand by the warranty or tell you 'we have no idea how this exhaust affected the life of your turbo, it's your problem...'

Great times for mechanical engineers to philosophise over all these goodies that we get.

 

[Zydi]

Warranty would not be my main concern. It is a managable risk. What would concern me more is a tune that changes emissions which as a consequence voids the car homologation. No interest in that.

 

[DriveInHouston]

Warranty would not be my main concern. It is a managable risk. What would concern me more is a tune that changes emissions which as a consequence voids the car homologation. No interest in that.

This is a fair concern. I would think that FIA would have very detailed and explicit homologation rules and what is allowed to be modified and what not in a given homologation group.

 

[mattkidd93]

As long as it passes the UK MOT test (three years after purchase) we're good to go!

To pass it would just need to meet the required emissions. And seeing as this is only a silencer change it should be fine.

The homologation laws that Europe hold don't apply to the UK - for owner modifications, at least to the best of my knowledge.

Furthermore UK insurance companies often offer the ability to add modifications to the policy. So there's certainly some pros to leaving the EU.