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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
So this is basically what I'm doing. Have driven manuals my whole life.

Now I'm wondering if something actually is wrong with the car.

You know that test where you get on a flat parking lot and really slowly let out the clutch to the bite point and hold it there and don't give any throttle.

If I do that, once I get to the bite point, no matter how slow I am, the car shudders as it gets moving

Trying to get going on a hill, same thing, it always seems like there's excessive vibration ( excessive slipping?) instead of the engine side smoothly engaging with the transmission side.

I've had the car for less than 2 months so I thought it was me but do you all think maybe this is something wrong with the clutch?

I've had no slipping issues once I'm in speed.
 

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Try this: Go to a nice flat parking lot. Release brakes. Get the RPMs up to, and hold, 2,000 RPMs. Release the clutch until RPM starts to drop. Maintain 2,000 RPMs and continue to slowly release the clutch. Report back.

I suggest this because the PDK seems to engage below 2,000 RPMs sometimes and folks complain about the noise. I think the manual would do the same, so keep it at 2,000 RPMs and see what happens.
 

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So this is basically what I'm doing. Have driven manuals my whole life.

Now I'm wondering if something actually is wrong with the car.

You know that test where you get on a flat parking lot and really slowly let out the clutch to the bite point and hold it there and don't give any throttle.

If I do that, once I get to the bite point, no matter how slow I am, the car shudders as it gets moving

Trying to get going on a hill, same thing, it always seems like there's excessive vibration ( excessive slipping?) instead of the engine side smoothly engaging with the transmission side.

I've had the car for less than 2 months so I thought it was me but do you all think maybe this is something wrong with the clutch?

I've had no slipping issues once I'm in speed.
I think its just the car and I agree its a little more sensitive than other manual cars I have owned. Compared to my prior car, a BMW F80 M3, that car had kind of an anti-stall feature whereby the revs would raise slightly by a few hundred rpm as you engaged the clutch. This would ensure a smooth full engagement with no gas and the car would start crawling. The 718 though does seem to shudder a little more and prefer some gas upon engagement. It just takes some getting used to but it doesnt sound like there is anything wrong with your car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Try this: Go to a nice flat parking lot. Release brakes. Get the RPMs up to, and hold, 2,000 RPMs. Release the clutch until RPM starts to drop. Maintain 2,000 RPMs and continue to slowly release the clutch. Report back.

I suggest this because the PDK seems to engage below 2,000 RPMs sometimes and folks complain about the noise. I think the manual would do the same, so keep it at 2,000 RPMs and see what happens.
Ok tried this. Especially if there's any kind of hill and even the slightest amount of gravity pulling me back, I need to rev to about 2k like you said for a smooth, non shuddery engagement.

Engagement point is still kind of vague.

since I started driving manual in the '90s, I wonder if that's just locked into what I'm expecting. Pretty sure those were lightweight flywheels, single mass.

I know everything is now a dual mass flywheel, maybe I just still am not used to it? Is that why this is so vague and occasionally shuttery?

Know this is kind of a lame chain, sorry.... Don't know why I can't figure this out
 

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This isn't a lame thread at all, but certainly your experience sounds worse than most. One thing I didn't see was any indication of mileage on your 2018 car. You said that you have only had it two months. Any chance that you're struggling with a worn clutch that was abused by the previous owner?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
It's got 7k miles
Don't know if it's the clutch worn by previous owner or me not learning..
 

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I think in your case you are just going to have to "Trust the Force, Luke." If you see the slight drop in RPMs, you know its trying to grab so just smoothly accelerate and smoothly release the clutch. On a hill, you have your foot on the brake until you get the clutch beginning to engage, so if it is or isn't engaging, going directly from the clutch to accelerator and releasing the clutch, all in one continuous motion, should prevent you from rolling much, if any. Find a sloping driveway where someone will let you try it and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Let's assume it's my learning curve....

I think I haven't been giving it enough gas while engaging. When I see/hear other porches at stop signs or hills, there's quite a bit of revving going on as they engage into first gear. As I try that more, it seems to engage better. Still not natural for my yet.
 

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You will get there. Most manual cars are unique in feel.

I had a 1960 Bug with a clutch so worn that you didn't need to use it if I could time the revs about right. I had a 1966 Mustang where the flywheel was so small, the first thing I had to do was go to a junk yard and get one that wasn't covered in heat cracks so I could drive it without it chattering me to deaf. I had a 1948 Jeep CJA that the brakes were so bad that I couldn't trust it on a hill if anyone was behind me but it had a heavy duty clutch that would take any kind of abuse and that kept me from drifting down on cars behind me. Then I was able to buy new cars and each clutch had a slightly different feel I had to adjust how to use.

My 2019 base Cayman has a double-weight flywheel that I think made it a bit tricky at first. From habit (good or bad), I'll often bump the gas just before engaging the clutch to work up a little extra torque (but that may be all in my head). Whatever works.
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Back to this :)

Anyone understand why these cars need the bump of gas (up to near 2k rpm) to really have a smooth clutch engagement? And it seems like I have to hold the clutch in the friction zone longer than with other cars..
 

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Back to this :)

Anyone understand why these cars need the bump of gas (up to near 2k rpm) to really have a smooth clutch engagement? And it seems like I have to hold the clutch in the friction zone longer than with other cars..
It probably has to do with the available instantaneous rotating energy available from the rotating/reciprocating masses at idle. This energy must at least be equal to the energy needed to get the car moving. I guess that the rotating masses at idle do not contain the amount of energy needed to get the car moving so it is necessary to increase this energy by using the throttle to increase the rpm. You can also look at it in a simpler way. With the clutch establishing a hard connection between the wheels, via the transmission, and the engine, the engine rpm must match that of the wheels as determined by the transmission gear ratio. Again, the "bump of gas" is needed to supply the energy to do this and sustain the car in motion (overcome losses). I agree it takes more throttle slipping with my Boxster than it did with my Z3/Z4s. Probably the Z3/Z4s had much more rotating engine mass, ergo, more energy on tap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Thanks for the explanation.. proving again, we don't buy these things for the car, but for the community ;)

Why would these powerful engines of ours have les rotating energy do you think?
 

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IMHO, based on nothing resembling actual knowledge, both our manual transmissions and the PDK are using dual mass flywheels with centrifugal pendulums, and both trannies bog down a bit under 2,000 RPMs so my opinion (and it isn't anyone else's opinion, because it is mine!) is that the pendulum needs the extra RPMs to fully extend and provide the needed bit of "available instantaneous rotating energy" as @Barryng notes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Well, finally have an update. Porsche agreed there's a mechanical problem and are replacing the flywheel and clutch under warranty. Said the mating surfaces were warped.

How bout that
 

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i put in a short throw shifter and the shifts are so much smoother I guess because the speed of my shifts matches the drop in RPM better.
 
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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Picked it up today. Problem solved.

Anyone else who has this shuddering getting into gear... Get your dealership to fix it if you can! They had no idea how it even happened.
 
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