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You must live in Utopia. Customers probably offer to pay more there because the dealers cannot get enough cars and make enough money to feed their family. I am not sure where Utopia is on a map. In the rest of the world supply and demand dictate price.
 

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You must live in Utopia. I am not sure where that is on a map. In the rest of the world supply and demand dictate price.
utopia concept was defined be economists and non-winners in the early 20th century who created the fiction of supply and demand.

I have a successful business and i also win at business whereas the commoner types blame "the machine" for not making a great profit and their customers are not very satisfied.

If one uses that simplistic rule of "supply and demand", we are the supply and the demand is the cash we have and they do not have. the only supply is the buyer and the demand is the person attempting to let our finances be released to them. The person with the bank account holds all of the power, every time. that is why a bank is powerless when they give you a loan, but they make it seem as if you are "indebted to them". they are indebted to you as you have their money now.

so long as I say Nah, and not give someone my money, there will always be a discount.
 

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@~el~jefe~ There are multiple ways to skin a cat. In my experience though, true premium products are not discounted and it adds to the allure. Quasi-premium products have discounts (Cadillac as example)
As an aside, I get a chuckle when pickup truck guys say "you know there are $90,000 trucks". I always respond, "yes, I see $45,000 trucks advertised on TV in Texas showing $15,000 discounts. What do you suppose the discount is on a $90,000 truck?"
 

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so long as I say Nah, and not give someone my money, there will always be a discount.
So how is that working for everyone buying a new Porsche now?
 
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So how is that working for everyone buying a new Porsche now?
Most people are not great at walking away and negotiating like a business man who grew up in Brooklyn, NY.

I lived in a few places in the USA and the salespeople and the customers have no concept of negotiating. Many do not really care about negotiating. The point is that the idea that a dealer should feel no need to negotiate is dumb. You can always get something. You have $80,000 dollars in your pocket and they do not. Tell them that. Be rude. They are not your friends. They are not the enemy, and they are not your friends. They are a vending machine. Let them know who is boss, the person with the money. There is always a something they can give for free. Ask them for a free option rather than the money for that free option. Asking for $2000 off is more difficult for them vs. asking for a $2000 option. The option does not cost $2000, but it does for you as a customer. I just want people on here to feel confident to negotiate and not buy into the LIE that there needs to be markup due to some extraneous variable of a pandemic. Does not correlate. For one, they already boosted the prices of the line a whole lot in the past few years. The other thing is that a salesperon always throws some bullshit thing that sounds reasonable for you to pay more. When they are talking, the bullshit is flowing. That's how you know they are lying, they are talking.
 

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@~el~jefe~ There are multiple ways to skin a cat. In my experience though, true premium products are not discounted and it adds to the allure. Quasi-premium products have discounts (Cadillac as example)
As an aside, I get a chuckle when pickup truck guys say "you know there are $90,000 trucks". I always respond, "yes, I see $45,000 trucks advertised on TV in Texas showing $15,000 discounts. What do you suppose the discount is on a $90,000 truck?"
I absolutely believe this is true. There is a posh feeling of knowing there is no discount. I get that. I love marketing and image. I love this brand and the 718 whole thing, and the full leather ridiculous dash board, and the changing of high quality metal for brushed aluminum. Heck yeah. I do not mind paying full boat to feel fancy either. I know i sound contradicting but you brought up a great point. Both I feel are true and whatever makes a person happy without lying to themselves. I do not know if i will ask for a discount. I might not ask for anything substantial as I want the dealer to owe me big when there is an issue. But that's my psychopathic Brooklyn born perspective that I will cash in on, we have a good track of collecting on stuff. 🥳
 

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Most people are not great at walking away and negotiating like a business man who grew up in Brooklyn, NY.

I lived in a few places in the USA and the salespeople and the customers have no concept of negotiating. Many do not really care about negotiating. The point is that the idea that a dealer should feel no need to negotiate is dumb. You can always get something. You have $80,000 dollars in your pocket and they do not. Tell them that. Be rude. They are not your friends. They are not the enemy, and they are not your friends. They are a vending machine. Let them know who is boss, the person with the money. There is always a something they can give for free. Ask them for a free option rather than the money for that free option. Asking for $2000 off is more difficult for them vs. asking for a $2000 option. The option does not cost $2000, but it does for you as a customer. I just want people on here to feel confident to negotiate and not buy into the LIE that there needs to be markup due to some extraneous variable of a pandemic. Does not correlate. For one, they already boosted the prices of the line a whole lot in the past few years. The other thing is that a salesperon always throws some bullshit thing that sounds reasonable for you to pay more. When they are talking, the bullshit is flowing. That's how you know they are lying, they are talking.
Again, So how is that working for everyone buying a new Porsche now?

"You have $80,000 dollars in your pocket and they do not. Tell them that. Be rude." Remember, there are five other people behind you, that are NICE/NOT rude, and also have $80,000 in their pockets.

BTW the chip shortage is NOT "... some extraneous variable of a pandemic". It is real.
Google it if you don't believe me.
Here is a picture of the Renesas wafer fab in Japan after a recent fire. They won't be making chips for awhile.
Building Wood Industry Factory Machine

Not sure yet on how Taiwan's chip industry did after super typhoon Chanthu this weekend either.
 

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There are not anyone behind me in the dealership ordering a new car. there are only 3,000 718's sold in North America per year. The margins are huge due them having to be huge to exist at such low numbers. The chip shortage effects bad business people. Apple had cash and just paid more and has chips first. Iphone 13xxx whatever is coming out on time. Do not make excuses for a guy ripping you off. Pay less or know you are paying more just and only because you want to and do not care.

I 100% believe you are projecting your qualms about negotiating skills onto others in this conversation. Almost no one negotiates across the country. That's not a good thing. I severely doubt most people's confidence and skills against a dealership, but that does not mean people like me cannot get some sort of deal, something, every time, because we can. It is not a knock, everyone has certain abilities. Obviously, everyone in this forum has GREAT abilities as we all earn and manage our money and have great style and artistic appreciation and much more, just being here in the 718 buying pool

I went to buy first a JCW Mini Cooper 2022. They have no impact on price due to shortages, no delay in ordering, 6-8 weeks from ordering to shipped from England and yours. BMW worked out their issues and secured stuff. That's a side note though.

most of the people in the dealership are looking for a used car when i go in. I dont get the point of buying something that has 4k miles on it and dumped, you know it was never broken in properly, and is a bag of metal under the hood. another side note. But yeah, buying new seemed kind of unusual in terms of % of buyers at the dealership in the 6 times i have been in walking around.
 

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that is not a reason not to discount anything. That is a reason to not discount things if this is 11th grade in high school and someone is writing an essay question on a weekly quiz in economics class. "supply and demand" is not an arguable stance to make a great business. It is narrow and has little to do with interpersonal high end business.

one discounts things to not be a jerk. People spend insane stupid money on those enormous, high end dealership showrooms, all the model looking front desk men and women, all of their time, and then won't give 5% off to a paying customer? those are narrow minded idiots who have no sense of business. The planet will remember that they gouged people 2% extra. I have been to dealerships that still do deals. They have, for 4-5% of their business loss, saved tens of thousands of advertising dollars for the next thirty years of their dealership.

Right now, the best thing to do is to give great service, relationships, conversations, happiness and give discounts as normally one could and be profitable. The whole pandemic thing is something that needs to be weathered, and is an opportunity to become the only game in town after it all settles.
In a recent interview, Porsche executive said their goal is to produce one less vehicle than there is demand. Pretty much sums it up I think and I don't believe they are hurting for customers these days.
 

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The chip shortage effects bad business people. Apple had cash and just paid more and has chips first. Iphone 13xxx whatever is coming out on time. Do not make excuses for a guy ripping you off. Pay less or know you are paying more just and only because you want to and do not care.
Your argument above supports my argument that when there is more demand than supply, you have to pay more for whatever is in short supply if you want the item. In most cases you will be glad to pay it to get it.

Whatever Apple is doing is completely irrelevant to the auto industry. Apple has their own foundry and wafer fab - Porsche and the other auto makers do not have that luxury. Foxconn/Hon Hai bought a foundry to mitigate chip shortages for iphone production. This give Apple better control over their own destiny - until their wafer fab(s) burn down. Also the consumer electronics industry did not abruptly cancel orders and stop placing new ones at the onset of COVID like the auto industry. It takes ~9 months or so from when a silicon ingot is started until a chip makes its way onto a PCB. While fire and typhoons can shut down chip production immediately, it cannot be turned on again like a faucet.
 

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Contacted 5 dealers in total in the last month. Most responsive was Porsche West Houston. Concerning costs, four were basically MSRP with standard deposits. One, however, Porsche Plano in Dallas, told me that they would require a $10,000 uplift or surcharge over MSRP, because 718 GTS' are so popular and rarefied.

That fee would, however, get me on a list for a possible GTS, since they had no allocations and didn't know when they would get any. Needless to say, I said .... :mad::eek:(n):ROFLMAO:.... yep, you guessed it, No, thanks.
 

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That doesn't sound like the reality that we have been been reading for the past few months. Some dealers may say they have an allocation when it is anticipated in the next round. They will let you order, put down a deposit etc., but the car doesn't get built until an actual allocation is assigned to you. If they do actually have an allocation, publish the names; lots would love to hear about available allocations.
Here my 2 cents of info:
There is a Cayman S allocation available at Porsche North Houston as of today, as well as one at Porsche South Bay in L.A.; the latter dealer also has a base Cayman allocation (told me that yesterday), plus they said that they could do something for 911s (probably trade?).
 

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As cooler weather descends in the northern climes, and fall color drives are just amazing in a 718, if you don't have a car now you will likely be looking at spring 2022 or later before you can fully enjoy it. If you believe prices will drop and you will get an allocation and you and your sig other will still be healthy next fall go ahead and wait it out. It's a gamble. Personally I like fall drives, but your mileage may differ.
 

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I am not anticipating a discount on my Cayman T that is due in December. However, I am leasing my Macan and I just got an e-mail from Porsche offering an early pull back and a credit of $1,000 on any wear and tear that might be on my vehicle. That's nice because I do have a scratch on the side that I got from those street barricades that they put in front of restaurants. (I will buy the Cayman because I anticipate on keeping it a while.)
 

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utopia concept was defined be economists and non-winners in the early 20th century who created the fiction of supply and demand.

I have a successful business and i also win at business whereas the commoner types blame "the machine" for not making a great profit and their customers are not very satisfied.

If one uses that simplistic rule of "supply and demand", we are the supply and the demand is the cash we have and they do not have. the only supply is the buyer and the demand is the person attempting to let our finances be released to them. The person with the bank account holds all of the power, every time. that is why a bank is powerless when they give you a loan, but they make it seem as if you are "indebted to them". they are indebted to you as you have their money now.

so long as I say Nah, and not give someone my money, there will always be a discount.
Way too much to unpack here. Regardless, I couldn't possibly oppose such a perfectly crafted and well supported argument. Imagine my horror in learning my graduate degree in Finance and Economics was a complete boondoggle and a total waste of money, time and effort....if only a mentor had steered me toward gender studies or other critically important curricula. I suppose I shall be incarcerated for all the lies and falsehoods I'm guilty of perpetrating over the years on one of the largest multi-financial services companies in this great country of ours. Then again, I'd probably get released on non-cash bail within two hours, but that's a rabbit hole for another forum.

I think most of us would agree that 718's are amazingly capable sports cars for the price. Yet, when I began my CPO 718 BS search in 2019, there were literally hundreds of cars from which to choose. Urgency wasn't critical, since 718's seemed to be little more than a massive "stagnating pool of misfits" that languished on dealer lots. We all know people believe what they want to believe, or at least what the media tells them to believe...and, at that time, the media characterized our cars as little more than 4-pot, sonorous crap. Fortunately, this forum had my ear, so I went with actual owner opinions, rather than the fake news.

I took three months crafting a list of cars with <5,000 miles that had my preferred color and options. I spent another month determining which of the nine acceptables would top the short list. Coincidentally, only one disappeared from this list during that time frame. Once down to three, I played their e-mail offers against each other, paid just over 70% of MSRP for a 2017 with 1,075 miles, and the rest is history.

Since deciding five months ago on a BGTS (2018 or newer, F4T or F6), I have yet to locate a single example that even comes close to meeting my criteria. This is totally confusing, as I'm willing to pay current market price and let my "finances be released to them." Yet, I search about a dozen sites twice or more every day and have want ads in the PCA Classifieds, but I'm still empty handed. This must somehow be related to the "fiction of supply and demand" which my evil professors either did not explain or I failed to comprehend.

Still matriculating and on the lam at 65.
 

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Way too much to unpack here. Regardless, I couldn't possibly oppose such a perfectly crafted and well supported argument. Imagine my horror in learning my graduate degree in Finance and Economics was a complete boondoggle and a total waste of money, time and effort....if only a mentor had steered me toward gender studies or other critically important curricula. I suppose I shall be incarcerated for all the lies and falsehoods I'm guilty of perpetrating over the years on one of the largest multi-financial services companies in this great country of ours. Then again, I'd probably get released on non-cash bail within two hours, but that's a rabbit hole for another forum.

I think most of us would agree that 718's are amazingly capable sports cars for the price. Yet, when I began my CPO 718 BS search in 2019, there were literally hundreds of cars from which to choose. Urgency wasn't critical, since 718's seemed to be little more than a massive "stagnating pool of misfits" that languished on dealer lots. We all know people believe what they want to believe, or at least what the media tells them to believe...and, at that time, the media characterized our cars as little more than 4-pot, sonorous crap. Fortunately, this forum had my ear, so I went with actual owner opinions, rather than the fake news.

I took three months crafting a list of cars with <5,000 miles that had my preferred color and options. I spent another month determining which of the nine acceptables would top the short list. Coincidentally, only one disappeared from this list during that time frame. Once down to three, I played their e-mail offers against each other, paid just over 70% of MSRP for a 2017 with 1,075 miles, and the rest is history.

Since deciding five months ago on a BGTS (2018 or newer, F4T or F6), I have yet to locate a single example that even comes close to meeting my criteria. This is totally confusing, as I'm willing to pay current market price and let my "finances be released to them." Yet, I search about a dozen sites twice or more every day and have want ads in the PCA Classifieds, but I'm still empty handed. This must somehow be related to the "fiction of supply and demand" which my evil professors either did not explain or I failed to comprehend.

Still matriculating and on the lam at 65.
Well said. After being enlightened about the supply and demand hogwash by the OP I am glad that I did not waste any more than a few semesters in the required business and economics courses while pursuing my engineering degrees. Perhaps if you followed the OP's advice, tell the non-existent sellers you have money and be rude, you would have your BGTS by now, and at a discount. Good luck in your pursuit.
 
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