Porsche 718 Forum banner
61 - 80 of 146 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Right. So the useable "band" only matters on the wide open roads. And to that, I think the 4.0 is just fine.
 

·
Premium Member
2022 Spyder GT Ag
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Right. So the useable "band" only matters on the wide open roads. And to that, I think the 4.0 is just fine.
yep. And width of the usable (or enjoyable) band and the gear spacing are more important than the absolute position of the band itself. Where a narrower band actually means more shifts to keep the motor within the band.

So thats where I think Matt Farrah might have thought of this backwards. I want to do some testing of this myself with different cars on the same road when the salt clears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
im not sure that math adds up in my head. The number of shifts is not really affected. There is a given band, and a given number of turns.

So basically I have cars with long gears and short gears. And 2 turbo cars and the rest of mine are NA. And some allow me to carry more speed in than others. All that actually nets out to is on a particular road in a particular car I might be going between 2-3-4. On another car it might be 3-4-5. To me it’s still usually the same number of shifts, just across a different range maybe.

And sometimes not even that. Like going from another car to the 458, the 58 has all its power up top, but the choice of gears isn’t so different when you consider entry speed and exit speeds are much higher. Or the last GT3 I had where the gears were taller than the 58 but the peak power band was about the same.

Again, my experience on my roads. Porsches have always had tall gearing and Ferraris and Porsches have almost always had motors with high peaks, but I dont find it difficult to adjust and i don’t really think about it once ive found the right 3 gears for that road.

Dont get me wrong, I love the T, and would love to own one. I just think that the idea that revvy cars with long legs are unusable on the street is a bit overwrought.
All I am really saying is that if I had an engine that has an increase in torque across the rpm range then it would be tempting to "chase the torque" all the way to its peak. If I had the 4.0 engine it would be difficult for me to keep below the speed limit for that reason. Easy to do in first gear but not so easy in 2nd and up. I have had my share of tickets so for me its a thing. Now on a track that is a totally different story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Right. So the useable "band" only matters on the wide open roads. And to that, I think the 4.0 is just fine.
I am certainly not trying to imply that the 4.0 isn't fine. Its awesome. Just saying one of the reasons why it wasn't a great match for me.
 

·
Registered
Cayman GTS 4.0
Joined
·
16 Posts
The torque and power in a NA car is linear so is easy to modulate exactly what you want via the throttle. With modern turbo engines you get such a big hit of torque low down I find myself going at big speeds even when short shifting.

I realise many people like that because the power is easy to get to, but I will always prefer a large NA engine that has to be worked at to get the peak power. Even though the torque peak is much higher there is still plenty low down for flexible driving in town/city.

Each to their own and choice is good :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,830 Posts
People that buy automatics are fundamentally interested in speed of shifting and less effort,...
I would say be careful about claiming what "people" do. Just as I bought my base Cayman for reasons other than price (so I don't need to defend that decision), I bought a car with PDK for a reason other than those you describe. I bought it because that's what was already in the car I liked. I was looking for a MT but recognize the alternate attractions of the PDK and so was content to take that instead. I would have loved a car with either. Which is to say that it was not a critical determining factor for my choice.

To be honest (and why wouldn't I be honest?), I have to say that if I really wanted the "ultimate" 718 I would have ordered a Speedster, if it had been available. That's like saying if we had some ham we could have some ham and eggs if we had some eggs. So I had pancakes instead. Which is to say a coupe instead of a 'vertible. My sweetie doesn't like me getting too much sun, alas. The chickens and the pig thank me for that decision. And I like pancakes too so I'm good with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
The torque and power in a NA car is linear so is easy to modulate exactly what you want via the throttle. With modern turbo engines you get such a big hit of torque low down I find myself going at big speeds even when short shifting.

I realise many people like that because the power is easy to get to, but I will always prefer a large NA engine that has to be worked at to get the peak power. Even though the torque peak is much higher there is still plenty low down for flexible driving in town/city.

Each to their own and choice is good :)
Agreed. All of my sports cars in the past have been NA with increasing torque and I loved them. But they were all around 200hp or less.
The 2.0T engine will be my first ever turbo engine and I think Porsche did a great job of keeping the power very linear and controllable. Its even fun to rev the engine out some but to more like 5000 rpm rather than higher. 300hp I think is the sweet spot for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I am certainly not trying to imply that the 4.0 isn't fine. Its awesome. Just saying one of the reasons why it wasn't a great match for me.
Yes, I didn't mean to suggest you did. I would have been just as happy with either car, I was really stuck on the fence - truly 50/50. I decided to let the allocation Gods decide for me and the T it was. :)
 

·
Premium Member
2022 Spyder GT Ag
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Yes, I didn't mean to suggest you did. I would have been just as happy with either car, I was really stuck on the fence - truly 50/50. I decided to let the allocation Gods decide for me and the T it was. :)
yes, and in my thought process it came down to the Boxster T or the Spyder. I had made final builds for both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
my T stickered at USD $77,600 in Feb 2021 when I ordered it. I added GT Silver paint, GT Silver Interior Package (pinstripe seats), Premium Package and the Extended Range tank. No leather, no exterior enhancement body work, no fancy seats. Additionally, I was able to negotiate 2% off sticker as well, so, $76,048 before TT&L.

Building an S with all of the standard options from the T (20" Carrera S wheels, PTV, SPASM, Sport Chrono), plus what I added to the T (Extended Range Tank and Premium Package) was USD $86,330, a greater than $10K diff for .5L of displacement and leather seats. If i was going to spend that kind of money on an S, I would have jumped to the GTS 4.0, but I am NOT at all disappointed with the enjoyment I get out of the T and NOBODY that sees the car in public and raves about the aesthetic gives a s**t that I don't have leather all over the place.
I’m next in line for my dealer’s cayman allocation and plan to order almost the exact same T, less the extended fuel tank. Anything else you wished you had added? I’d be surprised if I can get anything off sticker but I’ll give it a shot. Honestly I was expecting them to add a supply shortage mark up or something of that nature. The last allocation was also used to order a T by a different customer. I also could not keep the prices inline when trying to mod a base cayman or S up to what the T offers, unless I went with the base seats.

For me personally the T is the car I want as an enthusiast, which has been mentioned quite a bit and I think it’s accurate. A track day is not out of the question but certainly not buying it for that reason. I like it as the pure sports car configuration on steroids. Add all the suspension goodies to the base engine and you have a drivers car that can be exercised more reasonably off the track.

Can’t wait to get my order in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
I’m next in line for my dealer’s cayman allocation and plan to order almost the exact same T, less the extended fuel tank. Anything else you wished you had added? I’d be surprised if I can get anything off sticker but I’ll give it a shot. Honestly I was expecting them to add a supply shortage mark up or something of that nature. The last allocation was also used to order a T by a different customer. I also could not keep the prices inline when trying to mod a base cayman or S up to what the T offers, unless I went with the base seats.

For me personally the T is the car I want as an enthusiast, which has been mentioned quite a bit and I think it’s accurate. A track day is not out of the question but certainly not buying it for that reason. I like it as the pure sports car configuration on steroids. Add all the suspension goodies to the base engine and you have a drivers car that can be exercised more reasonably off the track.

Can’t wait to get my order in.
I know you ae asking if there is anything you missed adding but the T is really about less weight and less fluff. If you want the premium package, that sort of goes against the T being lighter and focused. Everything in the premium package is not about performance. Heated steering wheel to start with...I'll just leave it at that...the power folding mirrors, they add motors and weight. Mos people should be strong enough to fold mirrors if they really need it. The Bose system is not that much better than the base radio but it adds a subwoofer and extra speaker, an amplifier and I believe the other 6 speakers are slightly heavier too. The bliking lane indicators....I could call that a wash for an extra layer of safety but really the premium package is counter to the ethos of the T in my estimation. Porsche made the PCM optional around the world and added the door pulls. So I would recommend, you keep it a light as possible. With that said, I did go for the bigger tank knowing it adds weight as well but I didn't take it lightly and the weight added is so I could take long road trips. If you want the heavier luxury goods that is ok as well, I just think it might be worth to consider the weight and focus. For me, I ordered a T because it offers a more retro-focused enthusiast style that I appreciate down to the cloth seats. I have only needed to ever fold my mirrors in 40 years of driving and that was once when I bought a generic car cover and one time when a car clipped my mirror in the middle of the road and pushed it back. So get whatever makes you happy, I just wanted to offer a rare counterpoint that sometimes less is more, especially with a special type of car like the T. Best wishes and hope to run into all of you fellow T owners in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I know you ae asking if there is anything you missed adding but the T is really about less weight and less fluff. If you want the premium package, that sort of goes against the T being lighter and focused. Everything in the premium package is not about performance. Heated steering wheel to start with...I'll just leave it at that...the power folding mirrors, they add motors and weight. Mos people should be strong enough to fold mirrors if they really need it. The Bose system is not that much better than the base radio but it adds a subwoofer and extra speaker, an amplifier and I believe the other 6 speakers are slightly heavier too. The bliking lane indicators....I could call that a wash for an extra layer of safety but really the premium package is counter to the ethos of the T in my estimation. Porsche made the PCM optional around the world and added the door pulls. So I would recommend, you keep it a light as possible. With that said, I did go for the bigger tank knowing it adds weight as well but I didn't take it lightly and the weight added is so I could take long road trips. If you want the heavier luxury goods that is ok as well, I just think it might be worth to consider the weight and focus. For me, I ordered a T because it offers a more retro-focused enthusiast style that I appreciate down to the cloth seats. I have only needed to ever fold my mirrors in 40 years of driving and that was once when I bought a generic car cover and one time when a car clipped my mirror in the middle of the road and pushed it back. So get whatever makes you happy, I just wanted to offer a rare counterpoint that sometimes less is more, especially with a special type of car like the T. Best wishes and hope to run into all of you fellow T owners in the future.
I can certainly appreciate your points on weight and the spirit of the model. The door pulls are gimmicky IMO but true to what Porsche has done in the past (like the 964 RS prior to the Ts). I am worried about them getting dirty in GT silver though I must admit, lol. The PCM delete is again seeking the purity of a track car, but for me it won’t be that. In the end this will be driven on a semi regular basis and I do want some of the comforts. A better stereo, entry and drive, LCA, but agree not everything is must have in the premium package. I do think the weight is negligible for some of these items like the mirrors, granted I don’t really know how heavy those motors are. Maybe if I get competitive one day I’ll take the passenger seat out for that hot lap :).

This will be my first Porsche after a lifelong aspiration. I want this one as it’s closer to the the 80s and 90s cars I drove a few decades ago, but yet I want it to have a mix of today’s modern elements. I realize this breaks the heart of the concept to a degree. I will see how a la cart selections price out, as the premium package actually offers a little value, which is not common and directed me to it. Thanks for your response.
 

·
Registered
Cayman GTS 4.0
Joined
·
16 Posts
You buy a T to get the sport PASM, PTV and mechanical diff, but it weighs about the same as a base S model because of the bigger wheels and extra hardware. The door pulls are just marketing ****.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
375 Posts
I’m next in line for my dealer’s cayman allocation and plan to order almost the exact same T, less the extended fuel tank.

Can’t wait to get my order in.
I got the extended fuel tank. It was a cheap addition and there are some roads around here where I might not see a gas station for miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,222 Posts
I got the extended fuel tank. It was a cheap addition and there are some roads around here where I might not see a gas station for miles.
I blew through almost an entire fuel tank at every track day in our BS, leaving barely enough for ~50 miles of non-spirited driving at interstate speeds. The BS came standard with the larger tank. Thus, I'm sure I would have had to refuel mid-day with the smaller tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I blew through almost an entire fuel tank at every track day in our BS, leaving barely enough for ~50 miles of non-spirited driving at interstate speeds. The BS came standard with the larger tank. Thus, I'm sure I would have had to refuel mid-day with the smaller tank.
Ok for $140 I’m sold!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,222 Posts
Yes, even with my appreciation for lightweight, I would get the bigger tank over other weight adding features. I think it's a good addition.
Ok for $140 I’m sold!
Once upon a time, when racing mountain bikes around these parts, I may have pushed the envelope a little more than was practical or safe. Who in their right mind would cut knobs off tires, remove a few spokes, shave grips, shorten seat posts, remove seat padding, cut handle bars, etc? Okay...I never removed any spokes or drilled holes in my frame, but those things did cross my mind. Regardless, cutting weight became a total obsession, something that earned me the title "King of the Weight Weenies." Did I win a few races? Sure. Was lightness the reason, probably not in almost every case.

Thus, I fully understand the importance of and share your appreciation for shaving weight. That said, I believe moving to the larger tank is a very, very wise decision and something you'll never regret.
 

·
Registered
2021 CT 6MT
Joined
·
71 Posts
I’m next in line for my dealer’s cayman allocation and plan to order almost the exact same T, less the extended fuel tank. Anything else you wished you had added?
Nothing. I also got the Sport Style Pedals and Footrest (forgot to list that.) The ERFT is a no-brainer. If anyone is worried about weight and they are <= 6'00" and weigh over 165 and are NOT a gym bro/body builder, they should start working on themselves before worrying about insignificant weight added to the T via some thoughtful conveniences. In a cockpit like the Cayman's, I love the LCA for instance.
 
61 - 80 of 146 Posts
Top