Porsche 718 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 89 Posts

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I know this topic has been discussed previously, but after my experiences of the last few weeks wanted to provide an update. As many of you with 2022 and possibly 2021 Porsche 718's know, it is now required that we use Mobil 1 0w40 with the "C40" specification approved by Porsche. In Caymans, there is a yellow sticker in the rear hatch door (see photo below). The C40 is a new formula that is designed for newer vehicles with gasoline particulate filters. The older "A40" spec is only for older model vehicles without those particulate filters. Mobil 1 comes in two (at least) flavors of 0w40: Standard 0w40 that says "A40" approved on the back of the bottle and Mobil1 0w40 ESP X3 that states Porsche "C40" approved on the back of the bottle. I've attached photos of the EXP X3 C40 bottle below.

I don't want to disparage all Porsche dealers, but the three I have visited in the DC area (2 MD, 1 VA) are, at best, clueless. When I asked them if they had the Mobil 1 C40 oil in their parts department, they had no idea what I was talking about. "Yes we have Mobil 1 0w40" was the best I got. I asked if it was ESP X3 and they again went silent and finally said, "no, but its Porsche approved, so you're fine". When I asked them to read the back of the bottle, they all said "Porsche A40 approved". Only one dealer parts guy (Silver Spring) even knew there were two different Mobil 1's - A40 and C40 - that are Porsche approved. But his dealership didn't have the C40 available for sale.

I feel compelled to forewarn everyone that if/when they take their 2021 or 2022 718 in for an oil service, I believe there is a 80% or greater chance they are going to get A40 oil. The C40 is **** near impossible to find, and the service managers that I spoke with didn't have a clue as to what I was talking about until I walked them over to my car, showed them the yellow sticker and showed them a photo of the Mobil 1 0w40 ESP X3 bottle. So what the heck are they using in cars that require it??

Here's the good news. I just took delivery of two cases (6 quarts each) from a seller on Amazon that has it. Do a search on Amazon for Mobil 1 0w40 ESP X3 and it should come up. The Seller is listed as "1085 Corp". No idea who they are, and I was skeptical that I was going to get the correct oil, but as my photos show, I did. It wasn't cheap, $106 for 6 quarts, but it actually arrived in 48 hours today instead of the projected delivery date of September 15. BTW, AutoZone stores occasionally list the ESP X3 as in stock on their website. I called 7 stores in the greater DC area last night and 0 actually had it. AutoZone website is useless. I tried ordering it online, they charged my credit card and two days later got a notice of "not available" and a refund.

Even if you don't intend to ever do a DIY oil change, I strongly suggest you confirm with your dealer that they are using the correct oil for your car. The A40 and C40 are not backward or forward compatible. Even if I want my dealer to do the oil change, I would bring them the correct oil to use and demand a parts credit.

Sorry for the long ramble. Here are the photos confirming that I got the right stuff for my 2022 GTS 4.0:

Font Material property Publication Gas Gadget
Automotive tire Gadget Material property Packaging and labeling Gas
Font Publication Material property Tints and shades Electric blue
Automotive lighting Paint Vehicle Automotive exterior Motor vehicle
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
Questions. If the A40 degrades the particulate filter, how long does that take? How much does it cost to replace? Are there any other deleterious effects by not using C40 spec'd oil to the engine? The oil is to protect the moving components of the engine. Is protecting the particulate filter all that important? What happens if the particulate filter degrades? Is this an emissions thing that Porsche must abide by for certification? I think there's a lot about this that is unknown and need answers to. I know you probably do not know the answers to these questions, but just thought they should be asked and researched by those this may effect before believing the sky is falling.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Those are all good questions. Answers need to come from Porsche. Dealers are clueless and two out of three I went to in person were unaware of the C40 spec, period. The parts guy from Silver Spring only knew about it from….Rennlist discussions! No bulletin from corporate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
523 Posts
FYI, and according to the owners manual / GtN App:

2021s can use C40 0w-40 or 5w-40(*). The latter, Liqui Moly 4110 can be had from FCP euro.
2022s can use only C40 0w-40.

(*) Assuming you’re not doing cold starts at near 0°F.

Now… I’m just repeating what’s in the manuals. And that’s the oils I’ll use: 4110 in the ‘21 and the M1 ESPx3 in the ‘22. For now.

Buuuttt… I find it difficult to believe that the discontinuation of 5w-40 for ‘22s as an approved oil has any technical merit.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
FYI, and according to the owners manual / GtN App:

2021s can use C40 0w-40 or 5w-40(*). The latter, Liqui Moly 4110 can be had from FCP euro.
2022s can use only C40 0w-40.

(*) Assuming you’re not doing cold starts at near 0°F.

Now… I’m just repeating what’s in the manuals. And that’s the oils I’ll use: 4110 in the ‘21 and the M1 ESPx3 in the ‘22. For now.

Buuuttt… I find it difficult to believe that the discontinuation of 5w-40 for ‘22s as an approved oil has any technical merit.
Thanks for posting that info on 2021 vs 2022. My guess is with you - that there are no mechanical differences. More likely, Porsche just changed their mind on recommending 5w40 as an alternative weight to 0w40.. 0w40 was the only weight recommended for my 2014 Cayman and my neighbors 2018 GT3.

Found an interesting analysis of the difference between the two that mentions Porsche: Difference Between 5W40 and 0W40 | Ask Any Difference
 

·
Registered
2.0 Cayman PDK
Joined
·
204 Posts
As I understand it, C40 is a lower SAPS version of A40 oil (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulphur).

SAPS clog up the GPF when burned, preventing the engine from breathing out effectively.

SAPS are usually considered good for oil/your engine, as they're anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives. If the car specifies C40 I would strive to find it, for older cars I would stick with A40.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As I understand it, C40 is a lower SAPS version of A40 oil (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulphur). SAPS clog up the GPF when burned, preventing the engine from breathing out effectively.


SAPS are usually considered good for oil/your engine, as they're anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives. If the car specifies C40 I would strive to find it, for older cars I would stick with A40.
Yes, definitely stick with A40 if that is what was originally used and recommended in the owner's manual. The Mobil 1 website has technical specifications, and they state that C40 is NOT backward compatible with A40.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts
As I understand it, C40 is a lower SAPS version of A40 oil (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulphur). SAPS clog up the GPF when burned, preventing the engine from breathing out effectively.


SAPS are usually considered good for oil/your engine, as they're anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives. If the car specifies C40 I would strive to find it, for older cars I would stick with A40.
that's what I concluded with the change to C40 spec

in US, the GPF is not monitored by an 02 sensor as the other countries are; I'm changing out the Over Axle Pipes (4.0 engine) which will eliminate the GPF on my future '23 CGTS

(the US market models still have the "brick" inside the GPF)
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, that's it. The C40 only shows on the back of the 1 quart bottle, not on the cardboard box. But as far as I can tell, the ESP X3 is all C40. There is a Mobil 1 ESP without the added "X3" designation that is not C40.

Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
As I understand it, C40 is a lower SAPS version of A40 oil (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulphur).

SAPS clog up the GPF when burned, preventing the engine from breathing out effectively.

SAPS are usually considered good for oil/your engine, as they're anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives. If the car specifies C40 I would strive to find it, for older cars I would stick with A40.
So since I've removed the GPF on day one, I read this as A40 would be preferred to use as it's "better" for the engine than C40. Question?

The sticker in my trunk only says "use Mobile1 motor oil". No further specification.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So since I've removed the GPF on day one, I read this as A40 would be preferred to use as it's "better" for the engine than C40. Question?

The sticker in my trunk only says "use Mobile1 motor oil". No further specification.
What year and model of 718 do you have?
The sticker on the inside of my oil filler cap in the hatch also just says Mobil 1. But the yellow sticker that is located on the passenger side on the inside of the Cayman's hatch lift is where it says 0w40 C40. That's the last photo in my original post. Not sure where the yellow sticker would be on a Boxster. Also says 0w40 C40 on page 105 of my 2022 718 Owners manual.

I have not removed the GPF on my 2022 GTS 4.0. It sounds reasonable, but I have not seen any official information on whether A40 is fine if the GPF is removed, and/or if A40 or C40 is better for the engine if the GPF is removed. I would have hoped that both A40 and C40 are of similar quality relative to engine lubication performance, but the fact that Mobil 1 states that C40 is not backwards compatible with A40 has me wondering, "why?".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts
I'll have to look up what the part listings are for the catalytic converters between the '21 / '22 models and see if there's anything different there - if there isn't. I surmise that for GPF longevity, C40 spec addresses that

I hope the oil isn't as difficult to source M1 is pretty much sold everywhere

years back the FCA / SRT oil spec - called for Pennzoil and it was $10 / quart 7 years back - and not easy to find. To this day, that formulation is still not on store shelves - but other brands meet the spec and cost less
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,649 Posts
Just found a 6 quart case for $89.99 from Walmart. The stock pics showing a partially opened box lid are identical. My guess is the Walmart seller (1185 Straight Path Corp) is the same vendor as "1185 Corp" currently on Amazon). Regardless, I find it hard to believe there aren't more vendors selling C40 Mobil 1.

Researching C40 vs A40 a few months ago, I read where C40 was specifically formulated to prevent the oil from igniting on the cylinder walls during the compression stroke, prior to spark plug ignition. Must have been way down the rabbit hole, as I am currently unable to locate the quote.

www.walmart.com/ip/seort/1477298478
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThreePedalEd

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just found a 6 quart case for $89.99 from Walmart. The stock pics showing a partially opened box lid are identical. My guess is the Walmart seller (1185 Straight Path Corp) is the same vendor as "1185 Corp" currently on Amazon). Regardless, I find it hard to believe there aren't more vendors selling C40 Mobil 1.

Researching C40 vs A40 a few months ago, I read where C40 was specifically formulated to prevent the oil from igniting on the cylinder walls during the compression stroke, prior to spark plug ignition. Must have been way down the rabbit hole, as I am currently unable to locate the quote.

www.walmart.com/ip/seort/1477298478
Thanks, but....

Aargh! I spent $30 too much on two cases from what looks to be the same supplier. Walmart beats Amazon on this one!

Good find!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
What year and model of 718 do you have?
The sticker on the inside of my oil filler cap in the hatch also just says Mobil 1. But the yellow sticker that is located on the passenger side on the inside of the Cayman's hatch lift is where it says 0w40 C40. That's the last photo in my original post. Not sure where the yellow sticker would be on a Boxster. Also says 0w40 C40 on page 105 of my 2022 718 Owners manual.

I have not removed the GPF on my 2022 GTS 4.0. It sounds reasonable, but I have not seen any official information on whether A40 is fine if the GPF is removed, and/or if A40 or C40 is better for the engine if the GPF is removed. I would have hoped that both A40 and C40 are of similar quality relative to engine lubication performance, but the fact that Mobil 1 states that C40 is not backwards compatible with A40 has me wondering, "why?".
2021 Spyder
Checked the manual and it also says to use 0w40 C40. Other than that I've only the sticker shown in this picture:
Vehicle Motor vehicle Automotive tire Hood Car

Looked everywhere else. Can't find the C40 sticker from your photo anywhere.
I'll definitely bring this up at my next oil change. Wouldn't surprise me at all if my dealer is clueless about this as well.
Last invoice just says 0w40MOB. So who knows what flavor oil they put in my car?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,649 Posts
2021 Spyder
Checked the manual and it also says to use 0w40 C40. Other than that I've only the sticker shown in this picture:
View attachment 46908
Looked everywhere else. Can't find the C40 sticker from your photo anywhere.
I'll definitely bring this up at my next oil change. Wouldn't surprise me at all if my dealer is clueless about this as well.
Last invoice just says 0w40MOB. So who knows what flavor oil they put in my car?
Our BGTS also lacks a C-40 sticker. Regardless, the car is going in for warranty work an oil change on Oct 3, along with brake fluid replacement with Motul RBF600. Thus, I bit the bullet and just ordered two cases of Mobil 1 X3 C-40 from Walmart. Should be here by Sept 21. $200 for 12 quarts of oil was a little hard to swallow, but at least I'll know the car is getting the appropriate oil.
 
1 - 20 of 89 Posts
Top