Porsche 718 Forum banner
41 - 60 of 90 Posts

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
The 718 is not uncomfortable, I have covered some serious mileage in mine in single trips. But it’s definitely not a GT car, its simply not refined enough to be considered as such, the road noise is a large part of this.
I agree with your general assessment but not what “simply not refined enough” implies might be needed.

Please Porsche, do NOT refine the visceral sports car out of the Cayman. You already have gone too far IMO in growing/refining the base 911 into a mini-Panamera. Can’t even get many of the 911 models in a manual transmission.

If somebody wants to be soothed, massaged, and treated to concert hall audio on their highway trips, they have plenty Porsche models to choose from. Keep the Cayman visceral. And if that means a little road noise, so be it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
I agree with your general assessment but not what “simply not refined enough” implies might be needed.

Please Porsche, do NOT refine the visceral sports car out of the Cayman. You already have gone too far IMO in growing/refining the base 911 into a mini-Panamera. Can’t even get many of the 911 models in a manual transmission.

If somebody wants to be soothed, massaged, and treated to concert hall audio on their highway trips, they have plenty Porsche models to choose from. Keep the Cayman visceral. And if that means a little road noise, so be it.
I didn‘t suggest that it should be refined, my point was that the 718 does not really have the attributes that you would look for in a GT car, and if it’s a GT you are after it shouldn’t be on your list of possible purchases. There are many other alternatives that would fit that brief much better.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
I didn‘t suggest that it should be refined, my point was that the 718 does not really have the attributes that you would look for in a GT car, and if it’s a GT you are after it shouldn’t be on your list of possible purchases. There are many other alternatives that would fit that brief much better.
Agreed - after the first paragraph my reply was directed at Porsche management. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Porsche management mistakenly thought American buyers would be 100% happy with PDKs in the 991.1 GT3 and had to do an about face with the 991.2 after the 6-speed only 911R started trading at double its MSRP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
I don't think enough people understand the difference in excitement and overall enjoyment between the turbo 4 popper and the 4.0 flat 6. It's night and day.

I test drove my buddy's 4 popper cayman S and I was convinced.... I was going to buy the F Type SVR. I just needed more from the engine. I felt nothing inside at all during the test drive. It was only when the 4.0 came out that I revisited the Cayman and the rest is history.
 

·
Registered
2017 718 Cayman S
Joined
·
610 Posts
I think I need to try the 4.0 because if it’s like the 981 3.4, I’ll find it lackluster unless I rev it past 5000 rpm. One of the chief reasons I opted for an S with the 2.5 turbo was the more flexible powerband.
I don't think enough people understand the difference in excitement and overall enjoyment between the turbo 4 popper and the 4.0 flat 6. It's night and day.

I test drove my buddy's 4 popper cayman S and I was convinced.... I was going to buy the F Type SVR. I just needed more from the engine. I felt nothing inside at all during the test drive. It was only when the 4.0 came out that I revisited the Cayman and the rest is history.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
I think I need to try the 4.0 because if it’s like the 981 3.4, I’ll find it lackluster unless I rev it past 5000 rpm. One of the chief reasons I opted for an S with the 2.5 turbo was the more flexible powerband.
This is really a personal preference choice matter. For sports cars, I personally prefer naturally aspirated free revving high RPM engines. They tend to have a little less torque at the low end of the rpm range, but that's a trade off I'm happy to make. Other's prefer a broad torque range and are OK with an engine that does not feel (or sound) like it revs quite as freely to the higher end of the RPM range. No wrong answer.

P.S. The difference in the 718 models is noticeable, but not nearly as much as in the 911. Take the difference between a 911 Turbo S and a 911 GT3. The former has gobs of torque and will crush your eyeballs with 0-60 straight-line acceleration in PDK launch mode, with the Burmeister audio playing in the background. The latter is a lightweight 9,000 rpm screamer that loses the race to 60, but wins on the Nurburgring, can be ordered with three pedals, and the boiling engine would drown out a Burmeister at full volume. If I won the former, I'd trade it for the latter. But I know a lot of people that would do the opposite.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
I don't think enough people understand the difference in excitement and overall enjoyment between the turbo 4 popper and the 4.0 flat 6. It's night and day.

I test drove my buddy's 4 popper cayman S and I was convinced.... I was going to buy the F Type SVR. I just needed more from the engine. I felt nothing inside at all during the test drive. It was only when the 4.0 came out that I revisited the Cayman and the rest is history.
I completely disagree, spec for spec there is probably about 25-30k of a difference between models and there certainly isn’t that difference in enjoyment factor. To be honest if I had been willing to spend around £30k more then my 718T cost I wouldn’t have even been looking at 718s, I would have been looking at low mileage used 911s.
 

·
Premium Member
2022 Spyder
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
I completely disagree, spec for spec there is probably about 25-30k of a difference between models and there certainly isn’t that difference in enjoyment factor. To be honest if I had been willing to spend around £30k more then my 718T cost I wouldn’t have even been looking at 718s, I would have been looking at low mileage used 911s.
Yeah, but then you’re getting another turbo motor, or you’re going back to a 7-8 year old car. Plus, you’re losing the mid-engine layout. So that doesn’t work as a plan for everyone.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
I completely disagree, spec for spec there is probably about 25-30k of a difference between models and there certainly isn’t that difference in enjoyment factor. To be honest if I had been willing to spend around £30k more then my 718T cost I wouldn’t have even been looking at 718s, I would have been looking at low mileage used 911s.
Can't comment on UK prices, but I just specced a USA 2022 Cayman T as closely to my Cayman GTS 4.0 as possible. It came to $91,490 (Code PNHB9UG7). My GTS 4.0 was $108,900 so the difference is US $17,410. At an exchange rate of $1=0.76 pounds, that equates to 13,231 pounds. I did not add the "SportDesign Package" to the Cayman T build, or that would have further reduced the difference by $3,050 or 2,320 pounds.

I'm not questioning your purchase decision based upon relative value to you. That's your call. I just was surprised by the suggestion that a comparably equipped GTS 4.0 was the equivalent of US $33,000 to $40,000 more expensive than the T. In the US, the actual difference is half that amount - more like $17.5k.

Also, your comment that if you had been willing to spend more, you would have been looking at low mileage 911's. Again, that's a personal decision and preference. But for me, having owned a 997 911S for 6 years, followed by a 981 Cayman S for 8.5 years, I was only interested in going back to a 911 for a 991.2 GT3 6-speed or, possibly, a 992 GTS 7-speed. I prefer the Cayman's mid engine handling to the rear engine handling fo the 911. I also like that the Cayman has retained it's smaller, mostly analog, lightweight sports car feel compared to the 992 911, which has gotten (or feels) much larger and become a bit more GT oriented. The 911 is a great car for sure, but the Cayman GTS 4.0 better suits my personal preferences for a sports car. Crazy as it sounds, the other car I briefly considered was a Ferrari F8 Spyder, now that they have 7-year unlimited mileage maintenance plans. But I would have either had to make a choice of either taking my wife or golf clubs (but not both) on weekend getaways. That would have resulted in an expensive divorce, and perennial unhappiness for me. :sneaky: Besides, what I really need is to spend a few thousand at Porsches driving school to improve my skills with 400 horsepower, not spend $300k+ for 700+ horsepower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
will vary obviously by the person, but here's another anecdotal comparison. T for me was 85k, GTS4.0 from 101 to 107k, and Spyder about 115k.

So pretty much right on the money with what you said threepedal.

then it just comes down to preference, style, and budget. in for a penny in for a pound for me.

Might have seriously considered a spyder if it didn't have a manual roof and unobtainium allocation....

then add in that i can't get some of the options that i want on either the spyder or the T, and i'm happy where i've landed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
The difference between a stock T and a stock GTS is circa £13K at UK prices.
That's if you can get a new one, which is pretty much impossible or you will wait until 2023 for one.

The cheapest Boxster GTS 4.0 available from an OPC in the UK is £80,995. My Boxster T was £51,500, admitly the GTS is about 6 months newer than my T was, but that is still a pretty significant price difference.
 

·
Registered
2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
That's if you can get a new one, which is pretty much impossible or you will wait until 2023 for one.

The cheapest Boxster GTS 4.0 available from an OPC in the UK is £80,995. My Boxster T was £51,500, admitly the GTS is about 6 months newer than my T was, but that is still a pretty significant price difference.
Understood about greater discrepancy in the used car market. Think the same is true here in the US, but maybe not to the extent in the UK. Back when Porsche announced the GTS 4.0 in 2020 pre-covid, a couple of dealers here discounted new/demo 2019 718's, including GTS 2.5's, to below invoice. The GTS 4.0's in the used/CPO market are priced over original MSRP.
 

·
Registered
Cayman GTS 4.0
Joined
·
280 Posts
That's if you can get a new one, which is pretty much impossible or you will wait until 2023 for one.

The cheapest Boxster GTS 4.0 available from an OPC in the UK is £80,995. My Boxster T was £51,500, admitly the GTS is about 6 months newer than my T was, but that is still a pretty significant price difference.
If you can't wait you have to pay the price. I've just got a new Cayman GTS 4.0 having joined the waiting list last July.

I also got 3% discount (I have no idea why they agreed to a discount, but they did!) and price protection from the latest price increase, so actually paid £3669 under the current MRRP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
If you can't wait you have to pay the price. I've just got a new Cayman GTS 4.0 having joined the waiting list last July.

I also got 3% discount (I have no idea why they agreed to a discount, but they did!) and price protection from the latest price increase, so actually paid £3669 under the current MRRP.
I’m in no hurry to change, the warranty doesn’t run out on my T until November 2023. I will just hold on to it until then and change it for a 911, unless of course something I can’t turn down comes up before then.

I wouldn’t pay the overinflated used prices that are currently being asked, people who do are likely going to feel that in the long run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
387 Posts
Nothing significant, I drove it again today for a short run, much the same.
Okay, understood.

I’m still trying to understand what is not hitting the spot for you? Is it too much a sports car and not enough of a GT / cruiser? Is it too noisy, too quiet, too slow, too stiff? I am reluctant to try to offer an opinion or specify a solution without understanding what the problem is. Is it something quantifiable or more of an emotional disconnect that you can’t explain but only feel?

btw, I am an engineer, not a psychiatrist! Good luck👍
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Okay, understood.

I’m still trying to understand what is not hitting the spot for you? Is it too much a sports car and not enough of a GT / cruiser? Is it too noisy, too quiet, too slow, too stiff? I am reluctant to try to offer an opinion or specify a solution without understanding what the problem is. Is it something quantifiable or more of an emotional disconnect that you can’t explain but only feel?

btw, I am an engineer, not a psychiatrist! Good luck👍
It’s OK, it’s not compulsory to give me your opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
387 Posts
It’s OK, it’s not compulsory to give me your opinion.
Sorry, I don’t understand?

My opinion about the 718 is that it’s the best solution on the market for someone looking for a high quality, practical, superb handling, comfortable, enjoyable, affordable, mid-engined, balanced sports car.

Unfortunately I have no idea whether that helps you at all?
 
41 - 60 of 90 Posts
Top