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I drove a Cayman 718 S and base 911 Carrera back to back and the article pretty much describes how I felt about each of them.
 

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There is nothing “old school” about the Cayman GTS. Not sure what the author was drinking that day. I have no idea why “ old school” would even come to mind of anybody driving the 718. It a perfectly comfortable modern car. Not even close to any old school cars I have driven or owned. There is nothing mechanical about the 718. Even with the engine throbbing like a 993 with an aftermarket exhaust it clearly possesses all the sensibilities of a modern car.

“it feels like the torque band starts higher up when you are sitting in the driver’s seat. The level of torque made while puttering around is sufficient, but it also doesn’t feel as substantial at lower revs as the numbers would lead you to believe. As such, to be satisfied with the level of power being made by the flat four, you have to shift at higher rpm. “

I wish that were true but the above is the exact opposite of how I feel about the 718. You feel the torque way down on the rev range so you are not rewarded to be higher up on the rev range, unlike older versions. By the time you get higher up, you are going so fast on public roads you need to start backing off. Unlike the older Caymans where you could reasonably build to a sonorous crescendo, with the 718 being so fast you are there before you know it.

“blissfully run to redline in every gear all weekend long” ....well, only if you are on a track. I’m doing mid 50s in second gear and well into 90s in third. Where does the author think he is driving to redline on a public road. If I want to hear the engine sing at 5000rpms I need to be bombing down back roads in 2nd gear. Third gear at >5000 rpms is mostly left for straightaways on the highways unfortunately.

Just the other day, I punched the car at the on ramp and whoosh,...I was doing 120 mph. In a previous generation, I would have been doing 85 or 90 and enjoying the sound. With the 718 I was looking for the brakes to slow down. LOL.

Both these cars are a bit unexciting at lower speeds. They need speed to make them come alive.

I would probably chose a 911 if I could only have one and it was my DD, because I think it is a more comfortable long distance car on the highway and my wife can throw her purse in the back seat rather than at my feet if she is driving. But since I only care about the back roads and track, the 718 was a better decision for me.

I think the author should have quit after the first paragraph. :)
 

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I'm not a fan of the Carrera T. For $3k more I'd take the Carrera S with the 50 extra hp or save the $11k and get the Carrera.

Setting aside potential warranty issues, the base Carrera can get an ECU flash for about $2k and get around 450 hp.

The 718 GTS would probably be a little over 400 hp with a flash.

Forget all that. To me, the base Carrera is a better comparison to the GTS. The Carrera is only about $6k more but only has a slight 5 hp advantage. Stock.

Btw, the writer was yet another pretentious auto journalist. Seriously? I've been driving for 35 years and never once did I ever think the heating elements from the rear window defogger were even the slightest bit obtrusive. What kind of wanker would use that as an excuse to say the thinner rear window was better?

As an aside, if you add the rear wipers on the Carrera T, it uses the regular "thick" window.
 

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Interesting but odd article.

I think the Carrera T with the rear axle/wheel steering (RAS) and PTV will make a big different with sharp/tight fast cornering.

Otherwise without the RAS I find you really notice the rear weight bias of the 911 and it does not want to turn in as nice as the 718 or as fast. It is a more difficult drive but arguably a better track car for more sweeping corners.

I think comfortwise the 718s including GTS variant is fine with PASM and quieter than the old 981 variants. However, the 911 GTS or S variants are definitely more comfortable again both sound and ride quality.

The Cayman will always be the little brother but IMO performance and handling wise the 718 GTS for tighter circuits is the better car unless your 911 is optioned with RAS then maybe it comes down to badge preference, aesthetics, size and space.

Of course or 911 GT, turbo and RS cars come standard with RAS so there is definitely a reason for it and all those cars are top of their game.
 

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I guess we all have different opinions on this article. Ultimately he picked the 718 GTS.... that's right an Auto Journo picked the 718 GTS over a 911!... and he didn't even moan about the sound!

I didn't agree with all of what he said. It's astonishingly comfortable at low speeds, I just did 300 miles with a 7 month pregnant wife and she couldn't believe how comfortable it was.

I also didn't agree with it being less fun at low speeds. How is anything fun in traffic, unless one was Lava Orange and one was less colourful... that could be seen as fun maybe? Surprisingly the 718 here was manual, baby he has more fun not using his foot in traffic maybe...

The Carrera T is a brilliant car, the lightweight glass adds a bit of extra theatre, it is a fast as you need it to be and handles, well like a 911 beautifully. I spent 2 hours in one by myself around the back roads of Silverstone and loved it. But I went back home in my 6MT 718 GTSm it felt faster, liked being taken to the red line and when (occasionally) I can it feels a different car to an already amazing car.

'It’s the kind of machine you daydream about all week' in a comparison with a 911?! I'm very happy with that!
 

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The simple fact that a 911 based vehicle is being compared to any Cayman with coin toss decision making for preference is a far cry from the early days of the 987 vs 997..........for me, i have done prior comparisons and voted the Cayman always for my personal preferences.....with a huge nod always going to the mid engined, feel the rotation in the small of your back, handling. Never could get used to the lump behind the rear wheels sensation......That is just me and readily admitting to my early experiences racing Karts and influencing how I feel about what checks the boxes for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Never could get used to the lump behind the rear wheels sensation......That is just me and readily admitting to my early experiences racing Karts
I never Karted (though I was addicted to the kart-like Malibu GP formula) but felt the same way about my 911s. Just knowing that engine mass was hung out there beyond the rear axle somehow inhibited my desire to push it anywhere near its limits in the twisties. Maybe I was just too ingrained in the reputation of earlier 911 generations to 'swap ends' -- but they were never as fun to drive fast, for me, as the lower-power mid-engine Ferrari which preceded and Boxsters which followed. Of' course the latter have all been open-air roadster/spyder format cars, which in combination with mid-engine yields the ultimate 'feels fast' (relative to power) factor....like karts.

It still amazes me, when perusing fastestlaps.com track boards, how much the mid-engine cars consistently punch above their (power/weight) class -- esp. on the shorter courses (Hockenheim Short and Magny-Cours Club) where handling is at a premium.
 

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He is comparing a 6 speed manual to a PDK!... I compared a 6 sp Carrera T to a base 718 PDK and walked away convinced that my 40 year love affair with manual transmissions (and 911s) was over. Next day I started chasing for a 718 (preferably S) CPO. We have bought a lot of CPOs (mainly BMWs) and like the price break.

Two days later, hellooo 718 CS!

Note that a brand new Carrera PDK would probably meet the challenge, but the wallet would feel the challenge as well (+$30k at the barest minimum).
 

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I gave a lot of thought to this when I decided to finally get a Porsche at 52 yrs. old. I got a very well spec'd CGTS at 105k. Or a bland 911t , or a minimally spec'd base 911. I know I can eventually improve my cayman to 450 horse . I have never owned or even driven any Porsche. Mine was delivered on Dec 2018 . I live in Maine. It's winter and I still can't drive it. HA Spring soon, and I doubt I will miss the NA flat 6 that I never had or heard in person. I would need 150k to get the 911 I would be happy with. So I think I ,and we all made a great choice
 

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I'm not a fan of the Carrera T. For $3k more I'd take the Carrera S with the 50 extra hp or save the $11k and get the Carrera.

Setting aside potential warranty issues, the base Carrera can get an ECU flash for about $2k and get around 450 hp.

The 718 GTS would probably be a little over 400 hp with a flash.

Forget all that. To me, the base Carrera is a better comparison to the GTS. The Carrera is only about $6k more but only has a slight 5 hp advantage. Stock.

Btw, the writer was yet another pretentious auto journalist. Seriously? I've been driving for 35 years and never once did I ever think the heating elements from the rear window defogger were even the slightest bit obtrusive. What kind of wanker would use that as an excuse to say the thinner rear window was better?

As an aside, if you add the rear wipers on the Carrera T, it uses the regular "thick" window.
I bought a '19 Carrera T last November. I drove it 7500 miles and traded it back in for a new Cayman GTS that was sitting at a dealer in NC.

The T is a great car! If I'd kept it, I'd eventually have chipped it...but it's never going to be as great a sports car as a Cayman. It handles as well as a Carrera GTS and has all those handling goodies. Mine also had rear wheel steering. The thin rear window and the door pulls aren't needed, but they don't hurt anything. I thought the car was pretty quiet. I drove it all winter in Chicago area. My garage is heated but a couple times, I needed the rear to defog. I just turned on the AC and the fog went away from all the windows. Even with thin windows, it's still way quieter than this new Cayman is, even in Sport or Sport +. 375HP is quite a lot, in my book, especially with a torque curve like that thing had...and lower gearing.

I also tour my cars. I have a problem with getting 20 or so MPG on a tour. The T got 27 on a Chicago-Indy-Chicago trip I took with it. I was able to do all kinds of great stupid car tricks with it too. It was exciting to drive and good looking. The interior was very nice....But, for me, too big of a car and a bit scary at the limit and out of control. I don't like the 911 feeling of two big rear tires doing all the driving while the fronts just try to point the thing.

I've driven this Cayman GTS now enough to know what it can do..and I'm just floored by the handling. I had an '06 CS with coil-overs etc, etc. I thought that car had other-worldly handling, but the CGTS is better right out of the box than my '06 ever was.

I spent most of today flogging my Cayman around back roads in Wisconsin. What a joy! It is so balanced and capable.

I had turned around to go home today and was still on the most amazing roads in the midwest, which means not yet near where I live... when I went over a rise expecting to just go down a hill straight. Instead, I find a 35mph right turn with a full sized van coming the other way. I saw the end of my life and maybe others flash before my eyes. I must have missed the turn sign? Anyway, as soon as reality came into view, I braked a little, flicked the wheel a bit and gave it the slightest touch of throttle. All was well and kept it in my own lane....and we both went on our merry ways. I think I'd have become part of an accident scene if I'd been in the Carrera....or an M2. The Caymans are just so intuitive and neutral....and 718 is the best that I've driven. I had my '06 CS for almost 10 years and 100,000 miles. When I was thinking of replacing it, I tried a guy's 981S. I thought it was a bit boring to drive.

I still don't like the sound of my 718, if I'm being honest, but I'm learning to drive around the worst of the noises and I've removed the famous Soundaktor fuse. Also, I've set the programmable mode to the Normal setting without allowing the car to shut down at a stop. This keeps the exhaust quiet, the suspension soft and the engine mounts soft too... That's nice for driving around town with a minimum of intrusive vibrations in the chassis. When I'm out on the road cruising at sane speeds, I'm in Sport. When things get really interesting, I'm going to Sport Plus. I can feel what the car is doing a little better that way. It's only better when I'm pressing harder.

I love the power of this 718CGTS, and yes, if I choose the right area, I can drive it insanely fast on twisty public rural roads. I know where they are from riding many motorcycles all over this area. Track days will surely be a joy in this thing.

I'd love to flash my car but I'm going to wait a bit. It's pretty nice the way it is and I haven't digested all I want to before I even think about more power. ...wondering also about side effects of these chips. Who has done it? What kind of driving do you do with it? How does it change the character of the car? Is it prone to overheating with a chip installed? Anybody added a down-pipe with sport cat? Does that work well...again, with the side effect question. I went to the engine threads and I'm not getting much information.

:)
 

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I bought a '19 Carrera T last November. I drove it 7500 miles and traded it back in for a new Cayman GTS that was sitting at a dealer in NC.

The T is a great car! If I'd kept it, I'd eventually have chipped it...but it's never going to be as great a sports car as a Cayman. It handles as well as a Carrera GTS and has all those handling goodies. Mine also had rear wheel steering. The thin rear window and the door pulls aren't needed, but they don't hurt anything. I thought the car was pretty quiet. I drove it all winter in Chicago area. My garage is heated but a couple times, I needed the rear to defog. I just turned on the AC and the fog went away from all the windows. Even with thin windows, it's still way quieter than this new Cayman is, even in Sport or Sport +. 375HP is quite a lot, in my book, especially with a torque curve like that thing had...and lower gearing.

I also tour my cars. I have a problem with getting 20 or so MPG on a tour. The T got 27 on a Chicago-Indy-Chicago trip I took with it. I was able to do all kinds of great stupid car tricks with it too. It was exciting to drive and good looking. The interior was very nice....But, for me, too big of a car and a bit scary at the limit and out of control. I don't like the 911 feeling of two big rear tires doing all the driving while the fronts just try to point the thing.

I've driven this Cayman GTS now enough to know what it can do..and I'm just floored by the handling. I had an '06 CS with coil-overs etc, etc. I thought that car had other-worldly handling, but the CGTS is better right out of the box than my '06 ever was.

I spent most of today flogging my Cayman around back roads in Wisconsin. What a joy! It is so balanced and capable.

I had turned around to go home today and was still on the most amazing roads in the midwest, which means not yet near where I live... when I went over a rise expecting to just go down a hill straight. Instead, I find a 35mph right turn with a full sized van coming the other way. I saw the end of my life and maybe others flash before my eyes. I must have missed the turn sign? Anyway, as soon as reality came into view, I braked a little, flicked the wheel a bit and gave it the slightest touch of throttle. All was well and kept it in my own lane....and we both went on our merry ways. I think I'd have become part of an accident scene if I'd been in the Carrera....or an M2. The Caymans are just so intuitive and neutral....and 718 is the best that I've driven. I had my '06 CS for almost 10 years and 100,000 miles. When I was thinking of replacing it, I tried a guy's 981S. I thought it was a bit boring to drive.

I still don't like the sound of my 718, if I'm being honest, but I'm learning to drive around the worst of the noises and I've removed the famous Soundaktor fuse. Also, I've set the programmable mode to the Normal setting without allowing the car to shut down at a stop. This keeps the exhaust quiet, the suspension soft and the engine mounts soft too... That's nice for driving around town with a minimum of intrusive vibrations in the chassis. When I'm out on the road cruising at sane speeds, I'm in Sport. When things get really interesting, I'm going to Sport Plus. I can feel what the car is doing a little better that way. It's only better when I'm pressing harder.

I love the power of this 718CGTS, and yes, if I choose the right area, I can drive it insanely fast on twisty public rural roads. I know where they are from riding many motorcycles all over this area. Track days will surely be a joy in this thing.

I'd love to flash my car but I'm going to wait a bit. It's pretty nice the way it is and I haven't digested all I want to before I even think about more power. ...wondering also about side effects of these chips. Who has done it? What kind of driving do you do with it? How does it change the character of the car? Is it prone to overheating with a chip installed? Anybody added a down-pipe with sport cat? Does that work well...again, with the side effect question. I went to the engine threads and I'm not getting much information.

:)
Speaking of Wisconsin roads, do you get up to the Driftless region?
 
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