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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

wife and I have a 6MT Cayman T on order and after spending too much time reading about complaints of turbo lag, how is it in reality from fellow 2.0 6MT owners?

We currently own a 6MT ND2 and a 6MT M2C and I was thinking of selling the M2C since my wife despises the manual feel and its nice to own a cheap car (Miata). Opinions?

Thanks

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Despite what some writers and various forum members say, there is no appreciable turbo lag in the 2.0L. However it is important to understand the terminology vs. the behavior. Properly used, the term turbo lag refers to the time the turbo takes to spin up, regardless of engine speed. In the old days, meaning back in the 1980's when Porsche first started using turbos to reclaim power lost to emissions control, it was appreciable. Even at engine speeds for cruising the turbo wasn't always spinning up to capacity. When you opened the throttle further the turbo's rotational inertia meant it took a few seconds to produce boost. Then it would suddenly produce lots of torque. The 718 turbo engine doesn't do that. You can watch the boost gauge (if you can take your eyes off the road) and see that at any speed above idle the boost climbs very quickly when you open the throttle. Sure, it isn't instantaneous but it isn't noticeable.

That behavior is not the same thing as the fact that the engine produces little torque at low rpm. Below 2000rpm it has noticeably less torque than above 2000rpm. This is how it is tuned, a combination of valve and ignition timing, turbo and waste gate behavior, fuel injection, etc. Very few sports car engines have ever produced much torque at low rpm. Some of the British engines did, and of course the big American V-8's did. Most sports car engines were and still are tuned for maximum power. That can be obtained either with more torque or more rpm. Torque is limited by displacement and turbo boost, so to get more power engine designers would tune to get that torque at higher rpm at the expense of low rpm. If you are cruising at 1900rpm and mash the loud pedal, it will feel sluggish. But that isn't due to turbo lag. It is due to the fact that the engine wasn't designed to produce much torque at that speed.

You asked how real it is. When pulling away from a standstill the low torque at low rpm is more significant for PDK owners than MT owners. MT owners can rev the engine and pop the clutch to feel the transfer of momentum from flywheel to car, something PDK owners can't do except by Launch Control. With either transmission, if you try to accelerate in too high a gear you will notice it. In any other driving situation, it isn't significant at all.

[Reason to edit: Apparently I can't sbell.]
 

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As a 6MT base Cayman owner, I don't think it will ever be an issue you will get close to seeing. As Jim notes, the PDK often goes down to, or below, 2K RPMs and I doubt I've ever been there with my stick (unless just sitting there waiting to go). I also like to pop my accelerator before beginning to release the clutch from a stop and I begin engaging the clutch as the RPMs are coming down while feeding the gas as I release the clutch. So, I think it is much more a non-issue for our 6MT crowd than the PDK crowd.
 

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As a previous Cayman T ownder I would second what Jim says: If you are driving it competently you have plenty of torque on tap and no delay in accessing it. It is not like the big old turbos of the past. Even in normal driving mode, between 2500 - 6500 RPM the care fairly flies along, and it will gain a sharper throttle response when put into Sport mode. Put the car in Sport+ and it will keep the turbo spun up even when you're off throttle, so you don't need to worry about lag, and you can make the car as relaxed or eager as your mood takes you.

It annoys me to see people who "reviewed" the car on certain video sharing sites where they seemed to deliberately provoke a slow response from the engine by being in the wrong gear and out of the engine's optimum operating window.
 

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I have a base 2.0 turbo with PDK and no launch control. Under normal driving it does feel a little sluggish when you first push the accelerator pedal from a stand still, but only for a very brief moment and only when performing a normal take off from a complete stop. Once underway there is no "lag" at all. The car responds with plenty of power to any stab of the throttle once in motion. However, when I launch hard from a stand still, the PDK seems to "slip" the clutch just a little on take off just as you would likely do in a manual, and it gets away fairly quickly.

However, this car was not designed to burn rubber from a stop. It is a sports car and is meant to be driven as such to take advantage of the mid engine design and brilliant chassis with loads of cornering grip. Drive it as it was intended and you will not be disappointed in the least!! Handling is stellar and off apex thrust is plentiful!
 

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I have a base 2.0 turbo with PDK and no launch control. Under normal driving it does feel a little sluggish when you first push the accelerator pedal from a stand still, but only for a very brief moment and only when performing a normal take off from a complete stop. Once underway there is no "lag" at all. The car responds with plenty of power to any stab of the throttle once in motion. However, when I launch hard from a stand still, the PDK seems to "slip" the clutch just a little on take off just as you would likely do in a manual, and it gets away fairly quickly.

However, this car was not designed to burn rubber from a stop. It is a sports car and is meant to be driven as such to take advantage of the mid engine design and brilliant chassis with loads of cornering grip. Drive it as it was intended and you will not be disappointed in the least!! Handling is stellar and off apex thrust is plentiful!
Purchase a sprint booster, it will eliminate this hesitation, plenty on here have done just that and all without exception who have actually fitted one report the same.
i was sceptical and purchased one out of curiosity, the pedal commander stayed fitted and eliminated the dead spot you get initially on the 2.0 from standstil.
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Hi,

wife and I have a 6MT Cayman T on order and after spending too much time reading about complaints of turbo lag, how is it in reality from fellow 2.0 6MT owners?

We currently own a 6MT ND2 and a 6MT M2C and I was thinking of selling the M2C since my wife despises the manual feel and its a cheap. Opinions?

Thanks

View attachment 44327

View attachment 44328
I can't answer your question from recent personal experience, as I haven't driven a 718 with the 2.0 liter engine in some time. However, for the PCA members I know that have the 2.0 turbo, the only "complaint", if you want to call it that, is of the "non-linearity" in the responsiveness compared to the 981 6-cylinder NA engines. And the engine/exhaust sound for some. But I haven't heard any complaints on turbo lag per se. They tell me it is quick to respond, it's just a different rate of power delivery compared to the more linear 3.4 liter 6 (or now 4.0 liter), especially as you push towards redline. However, as a BMW M2 owner, you likely have already experienced this non-linear turbo power delivery. And from my experience with BMW turbos, I believe they have more "lag" than Porsche has in its engine lineup.

You should be able to find a base 718 with the 2.0 engine to test drive yourself. That's the real decision maker.

Nice looking M2 by the way. What exactly is the complaint "its a cheap"?
 

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I have a base 2.0 turbo with PDK and no launch control. Under normal driving it does feel a little sluggish when you first push the accelerator pedal from a stand still, but only for a very brief moment and only when performing a normal take off from a complete stop. Once underway there is no "lag" at all. The car responds with plenty of power to any stab of the throttle once in motion. However, when I launch hard from a stand still, the PDK seems to "slip" the clutch just a little on take off just as you would likely do in a manual, and it gets away fairly quickly.

However, this car was not designed to burn rubber from a stop. It is a sports car and is meant to be driven as such to take advantage of the mid engine design and brilliant chassis with loads of cornering grip. Drive it as it was intended and you will not be disappointed in the least!! Handling is stellar and off apex thrust is plentiful!
I have a 2.0l and PDK, and would completely agree with this post.
 

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I have a T and agree with all that has been said. Another thing to keep in mind is that while the normal mode is responsive, sport+ is even more so as it keeps the turbo spooled as much as possible for even quicker response. You can definitely feel the difference. Sport+ is very good for spirited driving.
 

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Despite what some writers and various forum members say, there is no appreciable turbo lag in the 2.0L. However it is important to understand the terminology vs. the behavior. Properly used, the term turbo lag refers to the time the turbo takes to spin up, regardless of engine speed. In the old days, meaning back in the 1980's when Porsche first started using turbos to reclaim power lost to emissions control, it was appreciable. Even at engine speeds for cruising the turbo wasn't always spinning up to capacity. When you opened the throttle further the turbo's rotational inertia meant it took a few seconds to produce boost. Then it would suddenly produce lots of torque. The 718 turbo engine doesn't do that. You can watch the boost gauge (if you can take your eyes off the road) and see that at any speed above idle the boost climbs very quickly when you open the throttle. Sure, it isn't instantaneous but it isn't noticeable.

That behavior is not the same thing as the fact that the engine produces little torque at low rpm. Below 2000rpm it has noticeably less torque than above 2000rpm. This is how it is tuned, a combination of valve and ignition timing, turbo and waste gate behavior, fuel injection, etc. Very few sports car engines have ever produced much torque at low rpm. Some of the British engines did, and of course the big American V-8's did. Most sports car engines were and still are tuned for maximum power. That can be obtained either with more torque or more rpm. Torque is limited by displacement and turbo boost, so to get more power engine designers would tune to get that torque at higher rpm at the expense of low rpm. If you are cruising at 1900rpm and mash the loud pedal, it will feel sluggish. But that isn't due to turbo lag. It is due to the fact that the engine wasn't designed to produce much torque at that speed.

You asked how real it is. When pulling away from a standstill the low torque at low rpm is more significant for PDK owners than MT owners. MT owners can rev the engine and pop the clutch to feel the transfer of momentum from flywheel to car, something PDK owners can't due except by Launch Control. With either transmission, if you try to accelerate in too high a gear you will notice it. In any other driving situation, it isn't significant at all.
This is exactly right! So many people confuse low end torque with turbo lag (which really doesn't exist in the 718, or many other modern turbo cars).
 

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I should also add that I've driven a 911 (2011 generation) N/A engine extensively and also find it to have a bit of the off-the-line sluggishness for a moment when you don't goose it. It's just a common feature of high performance cars that aren't really designed to perform best at very low speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As a previous Cayman T ownder I would second what Jim says: If you are driving it competently you have plenty of torque on tap and no delay in accessing it. It is not like the big old turbos of the past. Even in normal driving mode, between 2500 - 6500 RPM the care fairly flies along, and it will gain a sharper throttle response when put into Sport mode. Put the car in Sport+ and it will keep the turbo spun up even when you're off throttle, so you don't need to worry about lag, and you can make the car as relaxed or eager as your mood takes you.

It annoys me to see people who "reviewed" the car on certain video sharing sites where they seemed to deliberately provoke a slow response from the engine by being in the wrong gear and out of the engine's optimum operating window.
I've noticed that. People don't downshift or start in 2nd then proclaim it has little torque.

I can get the same feeling in the M2C if I'm not downshifting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I can't answer your question from recent personal experience, as I haven't driven a 718 with the 2.0 liter engine in some time. However, for the PCA members I know that have the 2.0 turbo, the only "complaint", if you want to call it that, is of the "non-linearity" in the responsiveness compared to the 981 6-cylinder NA engines. And the engine/exhaust sound for some. But I haven't heard any complaints on turbo lag per se. They tell me it is quick to respond, it's just a different rate of power delivery compared to the more linear 3.4 liter 6 (or now 4.0 liter), especially as you push towards redline. However, as a BMW M2 owner, you likely have already experienced this non-linear turbo power delivery. And from my experience with BMW turbos, I believe they have more "lag" than Porsche has in its engine lineup.

You should be able to find a base 718 with the 2.0 engine to test drive yourself. That's the real decision maker.

Nice looking M2 by the way. What exactly is the complaint "its a cheap"?
Typo, I meant to say it's nice to own a cheap car in regards to the Miata.
 

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2018 Agate Grey Metallic 718 Boxster (Manual)
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Coming from an e89 with the i6 N54, my 2.0L doesn't feel as powerful, but overall performance is probably about the same in the 718. As others have said, I have a MT and tend to downshift 1-2 gears when I want faster acceleration. I've also started using sport vs sport+ from a stop, which seems to make a difference. Overall, quite happy with the car.

Maybe in six months, after the warranty is over, I'll consider a tune. Just starting to educate myself about them. 🙂
 
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