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Discussion Starter #1
I know... I know.... I was on my soap box about this a little over a month ago. A guy over on Boost Addicts just did an article. The Author's screen name is Sticky, and he's been active on that site since 2010.... What I'm getting at is that it's not me. I found the article interesting because I was making some of the same arguments / comparisons. He goes into much more detail than I did.

Anyways, I thought I would share.

The virus that is knockoff or rebranded Chinese exhaust pieces sold by US companies

For the haters.... I am not a paid agitator. I don't have time to be that.... it sounds exhausting... no pun intended. :ROFLMAO:
Of course, I guess this is what a paid agitator would say. Anyways, give it a read. Raises some good questions.... If nothing else it's thought provoking.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not that they would do this, but what if it's the other way around and the Chinese are copying a successful product?
No clue, and great question! :D
 

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This interests me. I come from modding cheaper jap import cars where exhausts were much cheaper than Porsche. I can't quite get my head around the prices of Porsche exhausts (or anything else Porsche aftermarket). Specifically consider a 718 catless downpipe which is just a piece of SS tubing welded together with some flanges. There is little engineering in it as there are no mufflers to engineer for flow/sound and there is no catlaytic converter to engineer for flow/sound/emissions. It is simply a piece of pipe and performance/sound differences between manufacturers should be negligable. Some look nicer than others, but cheap Chinese options look pretty nice. Prices for 718 products start at around US$1200 and up. If this part was for a WRX you could get it for US$250 from a cheap supplier and even from respected brands from around US$500.

I am unwilling to pay this Porsche tax, so I have searched for chinese options. They are what you would expect. Single quantity supply from around US$250. If you purchased 20 they would be under US$200. The killer at the moment is the shipping due to COVID which is >$US200 for a typical downpipe sized package. I have not pushed the button yet. But I probably will.

If the brand name stuff was much better for some reason.... but it seems most of it is made in China by the same factories and quality is the same anyway.

Now if I was trying to achieve a certain sound and performance, and a company had spent a lot of time working out a well engineered exhaust to achieve this, I would be willing to pay a lot more. But in cases where it is just a piece of tubing.......
 

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Not sure why you have an axe to grind with soul...

Per the soul website, they state that they have manufactures in various areas of the world that meet their high standards. Furthermore, they back up their products with a warranty including track use. Whether they are made in China or elsewhere in the world, what does it matter? I mean if they were claiming that all of their exhausts were manufactured 100% in the USA and then it was uncovered that they were actually made in China I would certainly see the point there. But they aren’t claiming that nor specifically stating where they are manufactured so I’m failing to see what the “got ya” is here?
 

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China is a manufacturing 'giant' and is capable of the best, and the worst.

My stereo speaker designer had his cabinets made in China after sending them a hand crafted sample and saying if one cabinet didn't match the quality of the sample he'd be sending it back. At the time they were the most complex, highest quality cabinet ever made in China and AFAIK he never had to send one back.

They weren't cheap though, but nobody in Australia was prepared to make them.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
@gatorfast - I purposely left their name out of my original post because I did go a little overboard awhile ago. The author of the article doesn't just go after S*** he goes after other companies as well. In my personal humble opinion they are ripping people off, and they have the legal verbiage on their site to point to if someone where to start a fuss.

Like I said it's a thought provoking article to read.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
China is a manufacturing 'giant' and is capable of the best, and the worst.

My stereo speaker designer had his cabinets made in China after sending them a hand crafted sample and saying if one cabinet didn't match the quality of the sample he'd be sending it back. At the time they were the most complex, highest quality cabinet ever made in China and AFAIK he never had to send one back.

They weren't cheap though, but nobody in Australia was prepared to make them.
I get it. People get stuff made in China. My mac mini and iPhone I'm working on now was engineered in Northern California, but made and produced in China. That doesn't bother me because I know this before buying it. My point here is that the seller isn't being honest on what they are selling.

Side topic since you brought up speakers......
SPEAKERS!!! Oh man, so I love me some home theater and car audio. Here is my custom acrylic box that holds 6 6.5" B2 Audio subs that was in my '18 Ford F350 that was my SEMA build last year. SEXY!!!!

27701
27702


27703


My wife and my son who is 6' 3" tall
27704
 

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@gatorfast - I purposely left their name out of my original post because I did go a little overboard awhile ago. The author of the article doesn't just go after S*** he goes after other companies as well. In my personal humble opinion they are ripping people off, and they have the legal verbiage on their site to point to if someone where to start a fuss.

Like I said it's a thought provoking article to read.
How are they ripping people off? I am not following your logic. Its a pretty serious accusation of a company that many in the Porsche community are fond of and have had great experiences with. I dont want to do business with anyone that rips people off or is otherwise dishonest either but I am just not seeing what you are seeing here.
 

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I know... I know.... I was on my soap box about this a little over a month ago. A guy over on Boost Addicts just did an article. The Author's screen name is Sticky, and he's been active on that site since 2010.... What I'm getting at is that it's not me. I found the article interesting because I was making some of the same arguments / comparisons. He goes into much more detail than I did.

Anyways, I thought I would share.

The virus that is knockoff or rebranded Chinese exhaust pieces sold by US companies

For the haters.... I am not a paid agitator. I don't have time to be that.... it sounds exhausting... no pun intended. :ROFLMAO:
Of course, I guess this is what a paid agitator would say. Anyways, give it a read. Raises some good questions.... If nothing else it's thought provoking.
No one accused you of being a paid agitator. Agitator maybe yes, but not paid.
No clue, and great question! :D
If its a great question why haven't you invested the time investigation this avenue? Acknowledging is not action but only presenting one side is bias.
@gatorfast - I purposely left their name out of my original post because I did go a little overboard awhile ago. The author of the article doesn't just go after S*** he goes after other companies as well. In my personal humble opinion they are ripping people off, and they have the legal verbiage on their site to point to if someone where to start a fuss.

Like I said it's a thought provoking article to read.
Thought provoking all of this is indeed!
I get it. People get stuff made in China. My mac mini and iPhone I'm working on now was engineered in Northern California, but made and produced in China. That doesn't bother me because I know this before buying it. My point here is that the seller isn't being honest on what they are selling.
Again... what skin do you have in this that you'd care?

I have no skin in this game (I do have a SOUL downpipe) but anyone and everyone can make a downpipe! There's no secret in what's involved. So with that why does it seem to be your mission to create friction for one brand?

I have to say that in this these days of digital war and cancel culture I'm tired of seeing people force their opinion on others. I bring this up because you are following the provocateurs playbook to the letter! I'm in the belief that if you have noting good to say you don't say it. You & Me... we come from different points of view and will not see eye to eye on this, because for me it's not a brand loyalty thing, it's a right and wrong thing. Your motives seem malicious and they fact that you will not let it go, speaks against your comments of "not an agitator". Before you defend that you didn't mention a brand... that's exactly how provocateurs attempt to appear non-bias. Based on historic posts you are indeed directing this at a particular manufacture.

I'm tired of this culture and calling BS exactly what it is. I wish you well in life and hope you find enough peace in your heart to forgive my brashness. If posting this means I get banned or booted from the platform, so be it! We (society) can not allow this type of action to continue (as a whole, not just here) and as much as I enjoy coming here... I don't NEED it!
 

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It's kind of a pissing match between U.S. designed and manufactured company products versus U.S. designed and ISO 9001 Certified aerospace manufactured products manufactured elsewhere. Both companies clearly state this.
 

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Has anyone found a web page where this exhaust can be bought?
As far i as i know you need to buy in bulk
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How are they ripping people off? I am not following your logic. Its a pretty serious accusation of a company that many in the Porsche community are fond of and have had great experiences with. I dont want to do business with anyone that rips people off or is otherwise dishonest either but I am just not seeing what you are seeing here.
It is a serious accusation, and I'm surprised they haven't chimed in on the topic. They were extremely vocal on the performance of their X-Pipe when someone else called them out on it. I did chime in on that thread because I was curious what they had to say.

Here is my beef with them, and I believe I called this out on my big soap box thread. They lead you to believe they've done the R&D and manufacturing of these components. When in reality they haven't, or at least I believe they haven't. I don't have any proof only speculation. I've been dealing with engineers and engineering company's for the best part of 20 years, and the similarities of the Chinese stuff called out in the article, and what SOUL is selling for some of the Porsche products is just way to similar. The machining, and the patterns that are used to shed weight on the products are identical. I don't think I can make it much clearer than that, and I'm not sure I can explain it in a different way for you understand my thinking.

No one accused you of being a paid agitator. Agitator maybe yes, but not paid.

I have no skin in this game (I do have a SOUL downpipe) but anyone and everyone can make a downpipe! There's no secret in what's involved. So with that why does it seem to be your mission to create friction for one brand?

I have to say that in this these days of digital war and cancel culture I'm tired of seeing people force their opinion on others. I bring this up because you are following the provocateurs playbook to the letter! I'm in the belief that if you have noting good to say you don't say it. You & Me... we come from different points of view and will not see eye to eye on this, because for me it's not a brand loyalty thing, it's a right and wrong thing. Your motives seem malicious and they fact that you will not let it go, speaks against your comments of "not an agitator". Before you defend that you didn't mention a brand... that's exactly how provocateurs attempt to appear non-bias. Based on historic posts you are indeed directing this at a particular manufacture.

I'm tired of this culture and calling BS exactly what it is. I wish you well in life and hope you find enough peace in your heart to forgive my brashness. If posting this means I get banned or booted from the platform, so be it! We (society) can not allow this type of action to continue (as a whole, not just here) and as much as I enjoy coming here... I don't NEED it!
@HooosierDaddy - No offense taken on anything. I like good conversations, debates, or whatever we have going on here. I'm an adult and can take criticism like the best of them. Just going to run through the comments. :)

You & Me... we come from different points of view and will not see eye to eye on this, because for me it's not a brand loyalty thing, it's a right and wrong thing.
Most likely won't see eye to on the exhaust aspect of our vehicles, and that is totally OK! If we met in person and were chatting I would make a few jabs, and I would expect the same back.
Right and wrong..... Difference of an opinion.


Your motives seem malicious and they fact that you will not let it go, speaks against your comments of "not an agitator". Before you defend that you didn't mention a brand... that's exactly how provocateurs attempt to appear non-bias. Based on historic posts you are indeed directing this at a particular manufacture.
I can see how people can and will perceive that. The reason why I brought it up, was because someone called me that on my the last thread. I laughed because it's not true. Can I prove it? Nope. Do I have a Fabspeed exhaust and sport cat on my car? Yes, yes I do. Did I pay for it, and did I pay full retail for it? Yes I paid for it, and no I didn't pay full retail. I got a code from the SummitLife youtube channel that got me 20% off discount code about a month into COVID. Their was a video they made talking about their Fabspeed exhaust they picked up for their Ferrari, and offered up a discount code. I made a lot of big ticket item purchases during this time frame because people where unsure of what to come.

True, I do have a bit of a bias now as my car has Fabspeed components on it. I was hoping Remus or DINAN had performance components for our cars as I have experience with them from my past BMWs that I've owned.
 

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<snips>
Here is my beef with them, and I believe I called this out on my big soap box thread. They lead you to believe they've done the R&D and manufacturing of these components. When in reality they haven't, or at least I believe they haven't. I don't have any proof only speculation. I've been dealing with engineers and engineering company's for the best part of 20 years, and the similarities of the Chinese stuff called out in the article, and what SOUL is selling for some of the Porsche products is just way to similar. The machining, and the patterns that are used to shed weight on the products are identical. I don't think I can make it much clearer than that, and I'm not sure I can explain it in a different way for you understand my thinking.
Hmmm, I'll advise you to be careful when "calling out" people based purely on your speculations and beliefs as to cause and effect. There are at least two other scenarios that would account for those circumstances that you haven't mentioned. Slander can be expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hmmm, I'll advise you to be careful when "calling out" people based purely on your speculations and beliefs as to cause and effect. There are at least two other scenarios that would account for those circumstances that you haven't mentioned. Slander can be expensive.
And they are? The two other circumstances.

My thoughts and comments are opinions, and are worded as such. Now, if I made these comments with ill intent knowing they were false then I might have a problem on my hands.

But, here is the question. Are my opinions and comments factually incorrect / false? If I’m wrong then the guy who wrote the article I posted is in way more trouble than me.

Slander is verbal defamation, and I believe you meant libel defamation. One is verbal and one is written.

I can be a prick too.
 

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And they are? The two other circumstances.
<snip>
I can be a prick too.
IMO these should be obvious.
1. The design/development work was stolen.
2. The chinese version is made by the original manufacturer and sold without permission.
I'm sure there are others.

You're bragging about being a prick?
 

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It is a serious accusation, and I'm surprised they haven't chimed in on the topic. They were extremely vocal on the performance of their X-Pipe when someone else called them out on it. I did chime in on that thread because I was curious what they had to say.

Here is my beef with them, and I believe I called this out on my big soap box thread. They lead you to believe they've done the R&D and manufacturing of these components. When in reality they haven't, or at least I believe they haven't. I don't have any proof only speculation. I've been dealing with engineers and engineering company's for the best part of 20 years, and the similarities of the Chinese stuff called out in the article, and what SOUL is selling for some of the Porsche products is just way to similar. The machining, and the patterns that are used to shed weight on the products are identical. I don't think I can make it much clearer than that, and I'm not sure I can explain it in a different way for you understand my thinking.



@HooosierDaddy - No offense taken on anything. I like good conversations, debates, or whatever we have going on here. I'm an adult and can take criticism like the best of them. Just going to run through the comments. :)

You & Me... we come from different points of view and will not see eye to eye on this, because for me it's not a brand loyalty thing, it's a right and wrong thing.
Most likely won't see eye to on the exhaust aspect of our vehicles, and that is totally OK! If we met in person and were chatting I would make a few jabs, and I would expect the same back.
Right and wrong..... Difference of an opinion.


Your motives seem malicious and they fact that you will not let it go, speaks against your comments of "not an agitator". Before you defend that you didn't mention a brand... that's exactly how provocateurs attempt to appear non-bias. Based on historic posts you are indeed directing this at a particular manufacture.
I can see how people can and will perceive that. The reason why I brought it up, was because someone called me that on my the last thread. I laughed because it's not true. Can I prove it? Nope. Do I have a Fabspeed exhaust and sport cat on my car? Yes, yes I do. Did I pay for it, and did I pay full retail for it? Yes I paid for it, and no I didn't pay full retail. I got a code from the SummitLife youtube channel that got me 20% off discount code about a month into COVID. Their was a video they made talking about their Fabspeed exhaust they picked up for their Ferrari, and offered up a discount code. I made a lot of big ticket item purchases during this time frame because people where unsure of what to come.

True, I do have a bit of a bias now as my car has Fabspeed components on it. I was hoping Remus or DINAN had performance components for our cars as I have experience with them from my past BMWs that I've owned.
Sorry, I had to quote this so I could change the text color to read it. I use dark mode and the black text was not legible to me.
And they are? The two other circumstances.

My thoughts and comments are opinions, and are worded as such. Now, if I made these comments with ill intent knowing they were false then I might have a problem on my hands.

But, here is the question. Are my opinions and comments factually incorrect / false? If I’m wrong then the guy who wrote the article I posted is in way more trouble than me.

Slander is verbal defamation, and I believe you meant libel defamation. One is verbal and one is written.

I can be a prick too.
The fact that you think anyones a “prick” In this... contradicts your earlier statement of debate/conversation.

This whole thing has the stink of corporate espionage via competitive intelligence or corporate digital warfare to run a company into legal bankruptcy... Have someone make accusations against a competitor with the hope said competitor replies, because what a company say's can be used against them. Corporations hide behind disposable individuals that are either knowingly given directives or if they're eager to please (weak minded), unknowingly fed enough information to guide them down a path where they feel compelled to take on the task themselves. The goal is to have mob mentality kick in and cause a digital/social riot. The company under attack can either allow the assault to happen or react, knowing the reaction is then also going to be used against them. To me, from the outside looking in, the fact that Fabspeed hasn’t asked you to stop (purely as a forum sponsor and out of mutual respect) speaks volumes. I would wager there's a constant legal battle between these two companies and can guess which one is the aggressor.

IMO the world is changing and people are tired of these tactics (I know I am), because it does not create innovation! Only creating divide, driving prices up from having to add legal fees to the cost of goods. I'm tired of seeing things play out like this in the world today... corporate, politics, social media, activist groups, ect.

Sorry.... Maybe I'm just old and tired! Tired of the BS in this world as a whole and right now I'm directing the frustration at you? Doesn't change that I think there's an ongoing dispute between them or how I think it's playing out.
 

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I have a Fabspeed exhaust and sport cat on my car? Yes, did I pay full retail for it? no I didn't pay full retail. I got a code from the SummitLife youtube channel that got me 20% off discount code


Where is this discount code?
As i will purchase an exhaust right now!!
Fabspeed OR A SOUL with a 20% if there offering LOL.

Cheers Andrew
 

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Where is this discount code?
As i will purchase an exhaust right now!!
Fabspeed OR A SOUL with a 20% if there offering LOL.

Cheers Andrew
20% is a pretty deep discount.

If a company can offer 20% off sell price (close to 30-50% reduction in GP) they run incredibly high margins. Good for them, but why have they not offered that same discount here as one of the sites premium Vendors?
 

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20% is a pretty deep discount.

If a company can offer 20% off sell price (close to 30-50% reduction in GP) they run incredibly high margins. Good for them, but why have they not offered that same discount here as one of the sites premium Vendors?
Fabspeed has already given the 20% discount!
i was just asking where it was so i can apply it to my basket i don’t care what flavour of exhaust I purchase as the performance gain without changing anything else is minimal, i just want a more grown up sound rather than the fart in a bottle rasp I’m experiencing at the moment, if i wanted more power then i would purchase another 911 turbo s the same as i had the year before last Or a spyder, but i have other cars for outright performance (Ferrari’s) the 718 is my daily (and what a great car it’s is too) performance is not the deciding factor in a vehicle only used as a hack for the daily commute.

Cheers Andrew
 
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