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Discussion Starter #1
I'm in the process of speccing a spyder. I doubt that I will track the car. Thoughts on ditching the cup 2s and replacing with pilot sport 4s from the factory ? I don't intend to drive in the wet on purpose but living in Scotland it does rain occasionally so I'm wary of being caught out with the cup 2s. Anyone else done this ?
Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
 

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I have absolutely no personal experience, but I do enjoy watching YouTube videos and this guy did a pretty exhaustive comparison that may be helpful.
My understanding is that the cups are more geared primarily for track use with the occasional road use, while the PS4S are primarily road with occasional track use. When you factor in the possibility of rain, I think the differences weigh even more heavily towards using the PS4S.
 

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With no planned track usage (and even if you did track it could you benefit from the Cup 2s?) and the fact that it is highly likely you will have to drive in the rain at some point and also that the PS4S is already such a capable road tyre you're unlikely to be in a position where you think to yourself "I wish I had have specified the Cup 2s for that extra x% of grip/feel etc.. I would say that the logical side of your brain should pick the PS4S.
 

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Let me add PS4S N0

There is a difference in the sipe design (wider channel in the N0) that is significant in the rain. I have driven plain PS4S and experienced hydroplaning in relatively low speed, while the N0 I have on now seem to go through rain puddles without noticing.
 

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My PS4S are not N0. They don't have an N0 PS4S. That being said, my dealership 100% agrees that the PS4S non-N0 in 19" is a great tire, and so do I.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm currently driving a P380 f type rwd on PS4S and like them. I'm definitely leaning towards them for the spyder.

Thanks for the replies guys 🤙
 

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+1 for PS4S N0. Primarily street driven with a couple track days and they've been fantastic.

Having looked at replacement PS4S tires for my 718 with the 20" Carrera S wheels, the channels in the N0 tire were significantly wider than those in the non-N0 tire.

Whether or not that extra real estate will make a difference in the wet is beyond my level of expertise, but for the marginal difference in price per tire - $20/ea in my area - I'd rather not have that debate following a hydroplane induced accident.
 

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My PS4S are not N0. They don't have an N0 PS4S. That being said, my dealership 100% agrees that the PS4S non-N0 in 19" is a great tire, and so do I.
Let me clarify/emphasize JakiChan's post.

To my knowledge, Michelin does not have a PS4S N0 for 19" wheels.

However, Michelin does make PS4S N0 and PS4S for 20" wheels and their channel width is different. I have observed this in person.

I have no idea how the channel width in the 19" wheels compares with the channel width of the N0 spec 20" wheel tires.

For 18" Wheels you get Porsche spec Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric N0, Pirelli P Zero N1, Dunlop SP N0

For 19" Wheels you get Porsche spec Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric N0, Pirelli P Zero N1

For 20" Wheels you get Porsche spec Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric N0, Pirelli P Zero N1, Michelin PS4S N0
 

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Not a fan of Pirelli Pzero, but have noticed a “new” pzero called pz4, there is a N rated version of these, anyone had experience with the pz4 pzeros!?

And in Australia in the 19” sizes we get the Michelin ps4s and the Yokohama Advan Sport v105 in N rated tyres, from above info seems that’s not the case overseas!?

(Also noticed the Goodyear N rated tyres are the older f1 asymmetric or f1 asymmetric 2, not the newer version 3 or 5, do they even make the older f1 tyres or are they gonna be new old stock which is never a great thing for high performance rubber)
 

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I have Porsche OE PS4Ss N spec on my 20" OEM wheels and there is no doubt they are fantastic tires and in light rain/damp they feel much like they perform in the dry. You can really extract the performance under both conditions.

I also have Cup 2 N1s on my 20" HREs which are slightly larger than OEM and whilst these still work in the light rain/damp without any major issues they do not feel like they perform in the dry and you need to be relatively careful, but I would not say they are dangerous, you just need to signficantly adjust your driving style. The difference between wet and dry performance is considerable as you would expect. However, in my part of the world it doesn't rain much so if its raining I usually pick another day for driving.

Now if I was living in Scotland where I understand it rains more often than less I would not be getting the Cup 2s for street driving. With the Cup 2s you will always be able to go out but you will never be able to extract the performance out of your vehicle whilst using those tires in the wet, unlike the 4Ss, which still instill confidence in wet or damp driving, unlike the Cup 2s. There is also the cold to consider in that the Cup 2s really need the heat to build up before they get their grip which means they could catch you out.

If you want to track occassionally, maybe get another wheel set for track work or fast dry days.
 

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Seeing as the OP is talking about speccing a new build Spyder - where you can choose to go Cup 2 or not - the only tyre size that is relevant is 20" and as we all know the PS4S is available as an N0 rated tyre in this size. Also fitted at the factory any option is going to be N rated anyway.
 

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I want to clear up a common misunderstanding.

The 2 in Cup 2 tires indicates they are for use on 2WD vehicles.

The 4 in PS4S tires indicates they are for use on 4WD vehicles.

I hope this has made your decision easier.

Edit: I thought it would be obvious that I'm joking.
 

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The 4 in PS4S tires indicates they are for use on 4WD vehicles.

I hope this has made your decision easier.
Then why does Porsche put PS4S on 2wd sports cars like my Cayman???
 

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I want to clear up a common misunderstanding.

The 2 in Cup 2 tires indicates they are for use on 2WD vehicles.

The 4 in PS4S tires indicates they are for use on 4WD vehicles.

I hope this has made your decision easier.
Nope!... Sorry...

The '4S' in PS4S does not mean it's a four-season (all-season) tire. The PS4S is Michelin's 4th-generation Pilot Sport UHP summer tire, carrying on the legacy of the original Pilot Sport, the Pilot Sport PS2 and the Pilot Super Sport.
.
 

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I'm in the process of speccing a spyder. I doubt that I will track the car. Thoughts on ditching the cup 2s and replacing with pilot sport 4s from the factory ? I don't intend to drive in the wet on purpose but living in Scotland it does rain occasionally so I'm wary of being caught out with the cup 2s. Anyone else done this ?
Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
I didn't have the option of choosing the tires on my Spyder, it came with Dunlop Maxx Race 2 tires which I am really happy with will continue to play with until the fall. I have already bought a second set of wheels to facilitate mounting a set up Ultra High Performance All-season tires, even the 4s tires will not be suitable for my needs October through the end of March, I am not going out in the snow but cool temperatures and rain are plentiful in my area during these months.

BTW, I didn't know it rained in Scotland!
 

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What are the specs for wheels/tires for your all season set?
As usual these processes have taken on a life of their own, what I decided was to assemble the lightest possible set for the performance in the summer so I had the Race 2 tires swapped onto the new wheels, Forged One FF10's and will be mounting the UHP Bridgestone RE980AS on the OEM Spyder wheels for the balance of the year. As the Bridgestone's have a bit narrower profile out back I will upsize just a bit to get closer to the same profile as the OEM sizes, going with: 245/35R20 (front) and 305/30R20 (rear). I am waiting for these tires to arrive in stock locally.

Here is a picture of my Spyder with the summer combo, FF10's and Race 2 tires.

27715


And here is the car with the OEM Spyder wheels before the swap:

27717
 

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I didn't have the option of choosing the tires on my Spyder, it came with Dunlop Maxx Race 2 tires which I am really happy with will continue to play with until the fall.
Have you shared pics and info on the deliver of your Spyder yet? This was one car on the forum I was really looking forward to hearing about so forgive me if i missed it.
 

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Hi Cool Hand Luke,

For context: After my original set of Goodyears I have driven on 2 sets of PS4S N0 on 20” Carrera S wheels on my Boxster. I am currently driving on 245/35/20 N1 Cup2s at the front and 265/35/20 N2 Cup2s at the rear. I live in Australia where the average temperature is higher than Scotland, and the precipitation % is lower.

If you live in Scotland and don’t plan on going to the track I would 100% without a shadow of a doubt choose PS4S.

Like everyone else, I have found that the Cup2s are definitely less confidence inspiring than PS4S when they are cold and wet. Like DonR I don’t think that they are dangerous, otherwise I wouldn’t have installed them on my daily drive, but you can cause the rear to slip out much easier when applying throttle out of a corner. I agree that you need to significantly adjust your driving style in the wet.

In dry weather on a public road, I don’t like going beyond 80% of what I would try on the track, so I find the PS4S very suitable for grin inducing purposes. The PS4S also are incredibly easy to warm up to their optimum temperature. The Cup2s are fine to warm up in warm weather. But I do a lot of night time curvy road driving (at about ~8 deg celsius). The PS4S had no issues warming to optimum temperature. The Cup2s in the cold dry night, I can’t drive hard enough to fully/optimally warm them up unless I have zero traffic and I treat the road like my personal racetrack (which is a bit irresponsible/dangerous so therefore I try to avoid it). They still warm up enough to perform equally to the PS4S however (looking at lateral G forces through the same corners).

The reasons for me to change from PS4S to Cup2s were:
(1) I started to improve enough that I found the PS4S were reaching their limits on the track. But it took a while for my skill to improve enough that I thought the tyres where the factor that was holding me back (rather than me just being generally terrible at driving).
(2) In hot (>30 deg celsius) weather at the track, I was taking breaks frequently and parking in the shade to make sure the PS4S didn’t overheat. And when I ignored that I destroyed them down to bare threads by the end of the session.

Congrats on your impending Spyder purchase. Please post pictures when you get it!
 
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