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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Mt 2021 Cayman is due for it's "free" first oil change at the same dealership where I bought it a year ago.

I am bringing my own C40 oil in case they either don't have any or (more likely) the service manager has never heard of C40 oil. This dealership is very fancy with a fabulous facility, but the service people are hopeless.

What has been the recent experience of those getting an oil change at their local Porsche dealership. I know availability of C40 at some places was an issue a year or so ago.

Do all the dealerships have C40 on hand for those cars which require it? Or should I insist on reading the label on the container before they start refilling?

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I wouldnt worry about it, your dealership will use the correct oil for your car. I know C40 is the updated spec, but your 718 has the same engine as my 2018 model which calls for A40 spec in my manual. Nonetheless, any dealership would have the required Porsche oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I wouldnt worry about it, your dealership will use the correct oil for your car. I know C40 is the updated spec, but your 718 has the same engine as my 2018 model which calls for A40 spec in my manual. Nonetheless, any dealership would have the required Porsche oil.
Your optimism is noted; however, the Porsche dealer did NOT have the correct C40 oil. I was correct to be suspicious.

The service writer had never even heard of C40 oil or A40 either for that matter, and didn't actually know what specification they intended to put into my car. I showed them some documentation from Porsche showing that my car calls for C40 and that was news to them.

I asked them if they had a directive from Porsche indicating that using an oil different from the one required by my owners manual was OK. They indicated they didn't know of any such document. I just shook my head.

So before changing the oil, they did some investigation with the service people and checked with the parts department. This C40 business was news to everyone. Not a single person was aware of what I thought was common knowledge, at least among those working in a Porsche Dealership. They did indicate that the oil they used was Mobil 1, that it came in bulk, and that it was 5W-40 but the didn't know if it met A40 specs or not.

Realize that they operate from a brand new very impressive building with all the fancy service equipment in view of the luxurious waiting area complete with espresso machine, refrigerator, and so on. It looks as though you're in good hands, but as with most things, it's the people that make the difference.

My previous experience with them has been dismal and this was no different. They are polite, but they seem to know less about my Porsche than I do.

So I asked them to use the C40 oil I brought along and they did. Unfortunately they did something to disable my back up camera, so that is something else I have to deal with now.

While I waited for the oil change, I was chatting with a nice lady having her 7 year old Boxster serviced in anticipation of a cross country trip. Since the dealer more or less "owed" me 6 liters of oil, I asked them if they would give "my" oil (which is A40 and appropriate for her Boxster) and take the charge for oil change off her rather substantial bill. They didn't actually agree but the service writer said, "I'll make something happen". I'll never know, but I have my fingers crossed.
 

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Interesting experience. What I keep experiencing myself and hearing is that Porsche dealers in the US are just not at all up to the standards of Lexus or Mazda or Ferrari or any luxury brand dealers. They are way more low rent than that in the US.

So it’s a good reminder to do your diligence and not necessarily trust these dealers. This is the same reason I don’t do tires or alignments or oil changes with them unless you really know someone in particular who works there and will take care of the car.

The best independent shops are just so much better.
 

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When I was investing my first DIY oil change, I read about the C40 standard, as called for in my owners manual and called the local Porsche dealer to buy the oil, They too never heard of it. I pointed out that the C40 was the spec for most Porsche models after mid 2019. Its due to the emissions systems in European versions of the cars. I am not sure if the US cars really need the C40 spec vs the older A40. That is something the Father Land has to answer. But clearly the fact that the manual says C40 and the dealer never heard of it is certainly a concern.

'03 Audi RS6 called for a specific Audi spec oil. They would test it. If you did not use the correct oil, they would void your warrantee. BMW uses specific spec oil on the M cars. That too was hard to find as ECS and other suppliers offered the lesser spec oil. Longlife-01 vs Longlife-01-FE. Little differences matter I guess..

Anyway I found a supplier of the proper C40 spec oil and will DIY....so I know it is done right.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
... snip........... I pointed out that the C40 was the spec for most Porsche models after mid 2019. Its due to the emissions systems in European versions of the cars .......... snip...........
I suspect you're right about C40 being emissions related; however, direct injection engines with turbochargers are prone to low speed pre-ignition and the C40 oil is designed to resist that problem.

I also have read in literature published by some companies who market A40 oil that their oil also combats LSPI. Therefore I would not be surprised if there were a document from Porsche saying that it's OK to use A40 in the newer US spec cars but not with the European cars which have monitored gasoline particulate filters. But as far as I can tell, such a document does not exist.

So, until I learn more, I'm gonna' stick with using C40 oil.

What is really disappointing is the fact that my Porsche dealer (and others) knows nothing about this situation. I want my dealer to be more tech savvy than I am.

I'm reminded that years ago Frank Zappa warned us all when he said (I'm paraphrasing) if you intend to cope with modern civilization, you must prepare yourself for the fact that the majority of people are real dumb-asses. Sad to say, every day old Frank is proven right........................ Sigh.😢
 

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The following appears on Mobil's website: PdsDetailsPage

Mobil 1™ ESP X3 0W-40 is an advanced full synthetic engine oil specifically designed to provide outstanding performance for high powered engines, providing outstanding engine cleanliness, wear protection, strong durability and advanced fuel economy*. Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is our latest technology developed in cooperation with Porsche, one of our key European Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs). Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 has been expertly engineered to help prolong the life in new emerging gasoline powered European vehicles.​

Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is recommended for high-performance engines requiring GPFs (gasoline particulate filters). Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring an A40, C30 or C20.

So, were mid-2019 and beyond Porsche engines so different they can no longer use A40? And if so, what damage may have occurred as a result of Porsche dealers who failed to service cars appropriately by using C40?

My understanding is A40 was developed to prevent GPF damage and higher emissions accruing from GPF degradation. If true, then I would seriously like to know whether the lubricating properties of A40 are better or worse than those of C40. An empirical comparison would provide answers...I know, wishful thinking :unsure:.
 

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Your optimism is noted; however, the Porsche dealer did NOT have the correct C40 oil. I was correct to be suspicious.

The service writer had never even heard of C40 oil or A40 either for that matter, and didn't actually know what specification they intended to put into my car. I showed them some documentation from Porsche showing that my car calls for C40 and that was news to them.

I asked them if they had a directive from Porsche indicating that using an oil different from the one required by my owners manual was OK. They indicated they didn't know of any such document. I just shook my head.

So before changing the oil, they did some investigation with the service people and checked with the parts department. This C40 business was news to everyone. Not a single person was aware of what I thought was common knowledge, at least among those working in a Porsche Dealership. They did indicate that the oil they used was Mobil 1, that it came in bulk, and that it was 5W-40 but the didn't know if it met A40 specs or not.

Realize that they operate from a brand new very impressive building with all the fancy service equipment in view of the luxurious waiting area complete with espresso machine, refrigerator, and so on. It looks as though you're in good hands, but as with most things, it's the people that make the difference.

My previous experience with them has been dismal and this was no different. They are polite, but they seem to know less about my Porsche than I do.

So I asked them to use the C40 oil I brought along and they did. Unfortunately they did something to disable my back up camera, so that is something else I have to deal with now.

While I waited for the oil change, I was chatting with a nice lady having her 7 year old Boxster serviced in anticipation of a cross country trip. Since the dealer more or less "owed" me 6 liters of oil, I asked them if they would give "my" oil (which is A40 and appropriate for her Boxster) and take the charge for oil change off her rather substantial bill. They didn't actually agree but the service writer said, "I'll make something happen". I'll never know, but I have my fingers crossed.
Anyone experiencing poor service should contact Porsche NA. There is no excuse for a dealership not knowing basic maintenance requirements with their "factory" trained technicians. The sale of my car to a Porsche dealer was a terrible experience and I let PNA know about it. The offending dealer representative was obviously shaken by a call from corporate. 99% of folks could give a rats butt about what happens to their cars behind the walls, but bad players should be called out when informed folks know better.
 

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Anyone experiencing poor service should contact Porsche NA. There is no excuse for a dealership not knowing basic maintenance requirements with their "factory" trained technicians. The sale of my car to a Porsche dealer was a terrible experience and I let PNA know about it. The offending dealer representative was obviously shaken by a call from corporate. 99% of folks could give a rats butt about what happens to their cars behind the walls, but bad players should be called out when informed folks know better.
Oh you should see the letter I’m drafting to PCNA about my buying experience this time around. I agree that we need to let PCNA know how bad some of their dealerships have gotten.
 

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FYI.. Porsche Oil Types

Porsche C40 Oil Spec
This is a new oil formulation from Porsche that has been introduced and recommended for select late 2019 - 2020 onward Porsche gasoline engines. From the information we currently have this oil specification will be recommended in 2020 onward Porsche opposed flat four cylinder and opposed flat six cylinder gasoline engines. This is more less a Mid to Low SAPS (Low Sulphated Ash Phosphorus Sulfur) version of the already popular Porsche A40 specification. Most 2020 and newer Porsche models are equipped with more modern gasoline exhaust emission systems. The Porsche C40 oil formulation will optimize the life expectancy of these gasoline emission systems while still maintaining a high temperature high shear viscosity HTHS of 3.5 mPa*s or greater. Also, the TBN requirements for a Porsche C40 specification will be 8.0 or greater. from our current information this will correspond to an ACEA C3 oil specification and a 0W-40 or 5W-40 viscosity.

Important Note: To minimize mechanical engine issues a Porsche A40 should never be used in place of a Porsche C40 specification oil. If you are unable to source a Porsche C40 specification oil in your region, when low engine oil level emergencies arise, or when oil change intervals have been drastically past due. An ACEA C3 and SAE 0W-40 or 5W-40 can be used in place of a Porsche C40 oil. However, an engine oil change service should be performed as soon as possible when a Porsche C40 approved oil can be sourced.
 

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@BobS's "Important Note" states "to minimize mechanical engine issues a Porsche A40 should never be used in place of Porsche C40 specification oil." By "mechanical engine issues" does this really imply GPF health?

Mobil 1 states the new C40 is not backwards compatible, which doesn't seem to make sense to this non-engineer. If C40 is specially designed to optimize the life expectancy of the latest gasoline emission systems (e.g. GPF's), then how would C40 harm non-GPF engines? Is it possible the higher level of SAPS in A40 promotes better engine lubricating properties than the low-SAPS C40? If true, and if it only harms the GPF, which we don't have, then wouldn't we in the North America be better off using A40 in every 718 manufactured to date?

Mobil 1 specs on their website:

Mobil 1 A40 - Old Formula OilMobil 1 C40 - New Formula Oil
GradeSAE 0W-40SAE 0W-40
Viscosity Index, ASTM D2270185204
Mini-Rotary Viscometer, Apparent Viscosity, -40 C, mPa.s, ASTM D468421600None Stated
Flash Point, Cleveland Open Cup, °C, ASTM D92226230
Hi-Temp Hi-Shear Viscosity @ 150 C 1x10(6) sec(-1), mPa.s, ASTM D46833.63.8
Ash, Sulfated, mass%, ASTM D8741.3None Stated
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 C, mm2/s, ASTM D44571None Stated
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D44512.914.1
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D97-60-48
Total Base Number, mgKOH/g, ASTM D289612.6None Stated
Density @ 15 C, g/cm3, ASTM D40520.8460.846

Again, I'm not an engineer, nor have I the benefit of playing one on TV. Therefore, not sure how we should interpret the specs as one oil being superior to the other (with the exception of GPF health).

The cancer in my prostate gland was surgically removed in 2016, effectively leaving the gland's "empty shell" that performs no function. Therefore, I no longer require any supplements or foods (doesn't mean I don't eat them) that promote good prostate health. I view our lack of a GPF in a similar vein, the container is present; however, the particulate filtering mechanism is not. Thus it seems to me, we should use the oil spec that gives our engines the best chance of a long life without consideration for the GPF, which our North American cars don't have.

Furthermore, it appears very few of our dealers have been using the proper spec oil for mid-2019 or newer 718s. If true, then my non-engineer trained intuition tells me that, in the grand scheme of things here in NA, using A40 or C40 matters very little...OR, perhaps this is the source of @Graustark's engine failure (which I highly doubt).

Engineers unite and help restore my sanity...am I way off base here?
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
......... snip.................Engineers unite and help restore my sanity...am I way off base here?
Unite to what end? I'm an engineer and I suspect several other forum members are too; however, my area of study was aerodynamics. That included some chemistry, the study of fluids, and a bit of training in lubrication as well. Plus I've picked up a few tips along the way. But I am NOT an oil engineer nor am I a Porsche engine design engineer.

So what you speculate about could very well be true, but there could also be some important factor that we on this forum have no idea about. There has been more talk about GPFs than Low Speed Pre Ignition, but I'm pretty sure that's an issue. Is the A40 as good fighting that problem as C40? I don't know.

So no matter how many people chime in here claiming to be engineers and no matter how many people think A40 is OK, I'm gonna' continue to use C40 rather than make a guess.

The fact that Porsche dealerships are clueless should surprise nobody these days. People who should care, just don't give a crap and I don't trust my local Porsche dealer as far as I can spit, even though their new shop is as fancy as you could ever dream.

And the fact that many cars calling for C40 got filled with A40 and didn't blow up immediately is not a good data point to rely on either. Porsche even says it can be used in an emergency, but they go on to say change it ASAP. Does that apply to European cars only? Again, I don't know. But if so, I wonder why they didn't say so.

I hope what you are guessing is true, but I'm going to wait.


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Really great info here. I think the smart thing to do will be to take my 718 to an independent shop I trust, except for warranty work. I did that on GT3’s before anyway because the mechanics at our Porsche dealers are definitely not experienced or careful enough to manage a GT3 for sure.
 

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Porsche even says it can be used in an emergency, but they go on to say change it ASAP.
If your statement is referring to the text I quoted, I need to be clear that the information was not a statement from a Porsche website (as would be evident when opening the link). However, I assume their information was sourced from Porsche. I didn’t try to verify that. Take it for what you think it’s worth.
 

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Unite to what end? I'm an engineer and I suspect several other forum members are too; however, my area of study was aerodynamics. That included some chemistry, the study of fluids, and a bit of training in lubrication as well. Plus I've picked up a few tips along the way. But I am NOT an oil engineer nor am I a Porsche engine design engineer.

So what you speculate about could very well be true, but there could also be some important factor that we on this forum have no idea about. There has been more talk about GPFs than Low Speed Pre Ignition, but I'm pretty sure that's an issue. Is the A40 as good fighting that problem as C40? I don't know.

So no matter how many people chime in here claiming to be engineers and no matter how many people think A40 is OK, I'm gonna' continue to use C40 rather than make a guess.

The fact that Porsche dealerships are clueless should surprise nobody these days. People who should care, just don't give a crap and I don't trust my local Porsche dealer as far as I can spit, even though their new shop is as fancy as you could ever dream.

And the fact that many cars calling for C40 got filled with A40 and didn't blow up immediately is not a good data point to rely on either. Porsche even says it can be used in an emergency, but they go on to say change it ASAP. Does that apply to European cars only? Again, I don't know. But if so, I wonder why they didn't say so.

I hope what you are guessing is true, but I'm going to wait.


View attachment 37904
Your pic reminds me of a girl "friend's" melted engine when I was an undergrad. Daddy sent her to U of Houston with a new 914; unfortunately, she had no clue about cars. She calls me (freaking out) and screams her car's brakes just locked up on Loop 410, the car won't start or move, and begs for help. Turns out she never changed or checked the oil and the engine had totally seized. Both she and dad were treated to a really expensive learning opportunity :eek:.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If your statement is referring to the text I quoted, I need to be clear that the information was not a statement from a Porsche website (as would be evident when opening the link). However, I assume their information was sourced from Porsche. I didn’t try to verify that. Take it for what you think it’s worth.
Thanks for clearing that up.
 

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Engineers unite and help restore my sanity...am I way off base here?
You are certainly NOT off base. But imho, you cannot simply compare two similar oils like A40 and C40 using the static oil specs. Like you, I have my doubts that the C40 oil is superior to the A40 oil, but I believe it would take a lot of exhaustive lab and mechanical testing to determine which oil is truly superior when it comes to the longevity of the 9A2 Evo engine. Until that happens, I guess I'm sticking with the factory fill of Mobil-1 C40. I have to trust the manufacturer that the C40 is no worse than the A40 that came before it. (This coming from an Electrical Engineer, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. :geek: )
 
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