[Kidjef]

Hi all. I spec'd and ordered my GTS with a manual transmission. Now having doubts about it vs. PDK.
I'm very much of a manual enthusiast but the PDK seems to be quite the good proposition for this car, as it was seemingly designed with that transmission in mind.
I know this is one of those unresolvable topics, and yes I've researched and read about it extensively, but I'm looking specifically for feedback and thoughts from any hardcore manual guys here having made the transition. You know, people like me who until now thought they would NEVER get on non manual transmission haha.

(car will be daily'd, but I'm one of those who don't mind rowing my own gears even in traffic. Planning on the occasional track weekend but will not be chasing after 100th of seconds while at it)

Thank you!

 

[Porsche2018]

I know this is a tough decision and I will let some of our more learned colleagues chime in but...........I drove manual cars for 30+ years and ordered my CS initially in manual until......until I drove a car with PDK. I absolutely love the precision and flawless performance of a Porsche PDK equipped cars. PDK is my new found preference but I will let others chime in.

 

[Viffermike]

Welcome to the forum, @Kidjef!

I'm much like @Porsche2018 : I owned nothing but manual vehicles until my last three (I've had nearly 20). Lingering effects of a major soccer injury to my left knee in my early 30s has me mindful these days of needing a car without a left pedal ... and with all that in mind, the PDK is about as close as you can get to a manual in many ways.

It does take getting used to, and it can't completely replace a manual in key ways -- no transmission that has any sort of automatic actuation of anything can. But as these things go, it's hard to beat the PDK without spending nearly $200k for, say, a McLaren or a Ferrari with purpose-built, racing-bred DCTs that, depending on your expectations, may or may not be better than the PDK.

Simply put, PDK is the best DCT on the planet in a car that isn't produced in volumes of three figures or less.

 

[Semitone]

This is a no brainer. If you are a hardcore manual person..get a manual. I think you will be bored with the PDK after a few hours if you are really a "manual person"

I got a PDK for my Cayman GTS because I got it primarily as an autoX/HPDE car. If it was a daily driver, it sure as **** would have been a manual. I still have three manual cars, including my DD, and have no desire to give then up.

The manual v. PDK issue for DD is about "engagement" It has nothing to do with performance. If you want to be engaged with you car...stick with the manual. Trust me on this.

 

[Kidjef]

This is a no brainer. If you are a hardcore manual person..get a manual. I think you will be bored with the PDK after a few hours if you are really a "manual person"

I got a PDK for my Cayman GTS because I got it primarily as an autoX/HPDE car. If it was a daily driver, it sure as **** would have been a manual. I still have three manual cars, including my DD, and have no desire to give then up.

The manual v. PDK issue for DD is about "engagement" It has nothing to do with performance. If you want to be engaged with you car...stick with the manual. Trust me on this.

Thank you for your reply, which is definitely has relevance to my predicament. I own a tracked out e46 m3 which I used to track a LOT. I'm selling it so I can afford the Porsche.. and because I really don't have the time to go to the track as much as I used to. That said I'm planning to take the GTS out on the track occasionally. I guess I'm really torn between the 'gt' duties of my car : daily driving, canon carving (which would definitely be enjoyable with a stick) and missing out on the PDK whenever I can get to the track. Granted I will spend much more time doing the former than the latter, but I'm sure you get the point. As engaging as trying to perfectly execute a series of heel and toe downshifts from 5th to 2nd can be, I'm sure I would love having the luxury to focus on other things on the track ha!

 

[JakiChan]

I got a PDK for my Cayman GTS because I got it primarily as an autoX/HPDE car. If it was a daily driver, it sure as **** would have been a manual. I still have three manual cars, including my DD, and have no desire to give then up.

I find it interesting you suggest that. Does your daily commute have traffic in it? For DD duties I think PDK would be better, not worse.

Here's where I'm at:

I've had manual cars since 1997. I drove a PDK and I drove a manual. I love the PDK. It works SO well, and definitely reduces "driver load". I tried driving a manual Cayman S to see if I felt more "engaged" and I didn't. In fact I felt less engaged, since I was working to learn a new gearbox and I was not having fun at all. Also, I've never had a DCT so I figured I'd give one a try.

And, like Viffermike, I'm getting older...knees not as good as they used to be...

 

[aeronca65tl]

I currently own five manual transmission cars. And two of them are right-hand drive so I'm rowing the gears with my left hand sometimes.

I could heal-and-toe before I had a driver's license. I did my first autocross 50 years ago and I've been wheel-to-wheel racing since around '74. Currently running about 9 race weekends a year (in a dedicated race car).

I love the feel of a manual box and I have probably devoted a lot of muscle-memory to shifting gears.

But I really do like the PDK gearbox for this type of street car, especially when it's in "Sport" mode (all Caymans have Sport mode as a standard feature).

When driving with a little verve and in Sport mode, the shift are crisp and clean.....much faster than I could ever manage.

I will say that if the car in not in Sport mode and you are just dawdling in traffic, the PDK can seem a bit clunky and primitive. This is normal and is the result of not having a fluid-driven torque convertor. At times, the it seems to engage/coast/engage/coast in a fashion that reminds me of a old Briggs & Stratton mini bike with centrifugal clutch. It's not really a problem in my view, although I think some people confuse this behavior with turbo lag (which I can't really discern at all in my 2.0 base Cayman).

If you do not switch off the "Auto Start" (most of us disable it), the PDK also has a coasting function. You can feel it going down hills.

The minute you punch the Sport button and drive with some zest, the PDK box tightens up and shifts faster than any human could. Actually if you were just doing upshifts, I'd probably leave it in "D".

Downshift are a learning curve. It's easy but seems so unfamiliar. For faster driving on the track, the paddles would be the way to go. For autocross, you might want to use the "+" and "-" of the floor stick (since the paddles go around with the wheel).

Interestingly, if you are in "D" and downshift with the paddles, the car switches to "M" (manual) mode and stays there for a while (maybe 5 or 6 seconds). Even if you back off the gas, it won't upshift until the "M" light goes out.

One thing I've wondered about is the wear factor on the clutches with the car is standing still in "D". The PDK has a built in "creep". But without a convertor, it has to be created by clutch slip. I can only assume they has some guy at Porsche sitting in a idling 718 for hundreds of hours with the brake pedal on and the car in "D". The trans used two types of oil: a hypoid oil and some sort of ATF for the clutch packs. They developed the PDK at LeMans and it has a reputation of reliability so I'm not really worried about it......just technically curious.

When I first bought mine, I asked here (and other forums) about left-foot braking with the PDK. The response I got was crickets. Even the driver coach at Atlanta PEC didn't seem to have an opinion on it (I think I was the first person to ask). Now, after about 4000 miles, I think left-foot braking is viable and might be useable on track. Probably not so much for street driving. But you would have to add a pedal extension onto the left side of the brake pedal. If I used mine for track days, I'd definitely do this.

Anyway, that's my tuppence

 

[Kidjef]

Wow, thanks aeronca65tl for a very thorough answer. I'm really going to have to meditate on this. Before you commented I was just thinking that left foot breaking was a pretty appealing idea, if I were to go with PDK.
Thanks again !

 

[trusted]

Good stuff here! There really is no right or wrong answer. I'm looking forward to my manual Cayman S, at the same time would like to keep my PDK Cayman.


If one plans to keep the 718 for a long time and outside of warranty I'd like to add that the PDK is extremely expensive to replace. It can not be repaired as the whole assembly is a non serviceable unit. I'm not implying that the PDK generally is unreliable. Just mentioning it.

 

[ZuffenHouseRules]

I am 'hardcore manual person' apart from 5 years with a 928S4 (my first Porsche of five) which I bought used as an automatic (OEM Mercedes-sourced 4-speed unit with center console T-bar shifter). I bought it only with some hesitation at the automatic, but finding a manual 928 in U.S. was virtually impossible and that was my dream car/dream Porsche. Despite its many great virtues my enduring regret wrt that car is not having a manual. I could and did occasionally 'row' the shifter up-and-down for 'manual' (i.e. driver-specified) changes, but it never took the place of a real manual gearbox. In retrospect I think that had very little to do with the speed of shifts or viscous-coupling, everything to do with the missing tactile experience of direct mechanical engagement with the drivetrain via clutch and gearbox.

I do agree with the comment to the effect that if you're really a member of The Society, you know it and there is likely no doubt or equivocation on this issue.

 

[Kidjef]

I do agree with the comment to the effect that if you're really a member of The Society, there is likely no doubt or equivocation on this issue.

I have and have had that sticker on all my cars since it came out. I'm a little ashamed of myself for even considering the PDK. Yet here I am ?

 

[85Gold]

Had a PDK GTS on order and figured I should drive one before final lockdown. Yes it was fast but not fun. I mostly track and know the PDK is faster but I want to be fully involved and a properly executed heel and toe downshift is a large part of my driving satisfaction.

I have been driving manuals since the late 50's, advantage of growing up on a farm, when I could finally reach the pedals.

Peter

 

[JakiChan]

If one plans to keep the 718 for a long time and outside of warranty I'd like to add that the PDK is extremely expensive to replace. It can not be repaired as the whole assembly is a non serviceable unit. I'm not implying that the PDK generally is unreliable. Just mentioning it.

But it's also considered a "lifetime" part. I haven't heard a lifetime from Porsche, but I haven't heard of them wearing out. And if you do have an extended warranty it will be covered. (I'm going with 10/100...)

 

[Guaji]

I have and have had that sticker on all my cars since it came out. I'm a little ashamed of myself for even considering the PDK. Yet here I am ?

Don’t be ashamed! I almost “bit the bullet” and purschased the PDK. I ordered a GTS with a PDK. I really liked it on the test drive, the speed was so effortless and the quick shifts were impressive. Living in Miami, most people told be to go with the PDK. As the car was built and waiting for shipment I started second guessing myself, like you, so I made it my mission to find a 718 with a manual to test drive....not easy to find. I located a GTS with a manual at Champion Porsche in Pompano, north of Miami. I test drove a manual 718 Cayman S and was sold. I enjoyed the involvement and the Porsche manual is great from the factory...I don’t feel the need to add a short shifter like in my other/ previous cars. Very nice shifts. It is not as fast obviously than a PDK and takes more effort....but I enjoy it on the back roads an don’t mind it in traffic, since I’ve always owned manuals. I am not the best at heal / toe shifting ( I find the pedal placement on my old Subaru is easier for that) so I have to admit I really like the rev matching in the other modes. If you intend to track it, Sport and Sport+ plus modes have rev matching, so it removes one thing to think about. I haven’t taken mine on a track yet, though I enjoyed driving a manual 718 Cayman S at the Atlanta Porsche Experience Center. Bottom line both transmissions are fun and the PDK is one of the best!

 

[ZuffenHouseRules]

I'm a little ashamed of myself for even considering the PDK.;

I know you're at least half-joking! I guess I sometimes take for granted the luxury of not having to factor commute/traffic drive-time, nor am I concerned with posting lap times. Either of which would favor PDK, I get that.

Just want to make sure you have indeed driven the 718 manual-box.....it's regarded as the best of its kind as well. Although I rate my former Ferrari gated shifter higher for the tactile metal-on-metal thunk when slotting-in the selected cog -- I don't feel that in anything the same way with the 718. But overall the Porsche box is faster and smoother, shorter throws and doesn't need warming-up....

 

[JakiChan]

I have and have had that sticker on all my cars since it came out. I'm a little ashamed of myself for even considering the PDK. Yet here I am ?

Don't be. If you were considering something with a slush-box then that'd be one thing. But the PDK is the finest "automatic" transmission out there. Now you will find some purists who will give you grief about that. I'm not going to let them - I've had manuals for 20 years. I've really enjoyed driving PDK so far. And I intend to daily the car, which means traffic and which means I'll be glad for PDK. Also, it's one less thing to screw up. We tend to drive these cars hard and I don't want to overrev it and break it. Lastly, there are a couple of positions to take as far as resale goes. Maybe 10 years from now there will be a purist looking for a manual. But if you're going to sell to a dealer then PDK will be easier for them to move, so you might get more.

I do keep second guessing things about my config, but the transmission isn't one of them. I've wanted a "flappy paddle gearbox" for a while.

 

[Kidjef]

@Guaji @ZuffenHouseRules - I actually haven't. There was just no manual at all to be found at any of the dealerships in the greater Los Angeles area. I just test drove a GTS with PDK, and thought it was actually pretty fun. But at that time, I didn't even give any thoughts to it - I was just going to order a manual.
Now, while waiting, and after reading more and more rave reviews on the PDK (torque, better gear ratio, telepathic feel, quickness and even a marginally better fuel economy), the seed of doubt eventually got planted ha!

 

[trusted]

But it's also considered a "lifetime" part. I haven't heard a lifetime from Porsche, but I haven't heard of them wearing out. And if you do have an extended warranty it will be covered. (I'm going with 10/100...)

Some lifetimes are shorter then others... Stuff breaks. A comprehensive 10/100 warranty is a good idea if you plan to hang on to the car. The PDK a $20K++ replacement. Doesn't hurt to be aware of that I think.

 

[Guaji]

The PDK was definitely fun on my test drive.....I was driving on the streets around the dealer...just normal traffic and stoplights. If was fun mashing the pedal and just hanging on for the ride...the manual doesn’t feel that effortless as I mentioned.

 

[wriggly]

I started driving with manuals and have owned quite a few cars with manual transmissions. I already owned a pretty high performance car with a really good manual and when I shopped for a Porsche, I figured I'd give the PDK a shot. Plus, it gives the wife who's manual trans challenged a chance to take some turns driving a world class automobile. I love the PDK. When I feel the need for more involvement, I take out the other car.