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Full electric or hybrid, which would you choose?
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Neither.
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I'd go full electric, one or the other. The electric cars are heavy enough without having to have both.
I think the 918 had a kerb weight of around 1700kg/3700 lb.
I'd imagine if you could remove engine and accessories you could reduce the weight by at least 100kg whilst allowing for the extra batteries/motors.
Still a heavy car though.:|
It will be interesting to see what an all electric 718 weighs in at. Maybe 1550kg/3400 lbs if lucky?
I think the 918 had a kerb weight of around 1700kg/3700 lb.
I'd imagine if you could remove engine and accessories you could reduce the weight by at least 100kg whilst allowing for the extra batteries/motors.
Still a heavy car though.:|
It will be interesting to see what an all electric 718 weighs in at. Maybe 1550kg/3400 lbs if lucky?
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Battery powered electric cars aren’t the future.
A friend of mine works in the car industry and tells me there’s a huge warehouse in Belgium that’s full of old used car batteries from electric vehicles that they don’t know what to do with or how to dispose of them.
Battery technology is continually changing, it would take a brave person to heavily invest in a battery electric vehicle, with the technology changing rapidly anything currently available will soon be obsolete.
The real world range of these vehicles is useless.
The future will be electric vehicles powered by Hydrogen.
A friend of mine works in the car industry and tells me there’s a huge warehouse in Belgium that’s full of old used car batteries from electric vehicles that they don’t know what to do with or how to dispose of them.
Battery technology is continually changing, it would take a brave person to heavily invest in a battery electric vehicle, with the technology changing rapidly anything currently available will soon be obsolete.
The real world range of these vehicles is useless.
The future will be electric vehicles powered by Hydrogen.
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There are differing opinions but I essentially agree with all your comments. Quite honestly, I wouldn't take one of the current versions of electric car if they gave it to me for free......well, I may take it then turn around and sell it, after all it's 100% profit.:laugh:
If you're that keen on going electric then I hear this is for sale.Full elec. Not sure if it'll be a boxster, but can't wait.
(Yep... I'm aware you guys are about to kick me out of the forum)
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It would depend on which was more fun to drive and more practical. Right now electric cars are not practical (at least where I live) for your only car. The infrastructure isn't there yet. Perhaps it will be in five or ten years.
A hybrid is practical because of the ICE to hep out.
However I've driven a hybrid Panamera and non-hybrid Panamera back-to-back on a slalom course and the hybrid feels like a boat in comparison. Those batteries are heavy!
If the 718 ever gets rid of its ICE completely I'll probably buy the last year possible with an ICE and keep that forever! (*Unless I change my mind about electric car performance after driving the Taycan when it becomes available.)
A hybrid is practical because of the ICE to hep out.
However I've driven a hybrid Panamera and non-hybrid Panamera back-to-back on a slalom course and the hybrid feels like a boat in comparison. Those batteries are heavy!
If the 718 ever gets rid of its ICE completely I'll probably buy the last year possible with an ICE and keep that forever! (*Unless I change my mind about electric car performance after driving the Taycan when it becomes available.)
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Hydrogen of course faces a huge list of challenges (no, I won't go so far as to say any technology couldn't happen). Production is an issue for one, as the only way to get it is w/ huge amounts of electricity. Distribution is another, it can't be reasonably liquefied so you'll have vast neworks of pressurized pipelines. Fueling by the average user, and then there's the tank of highly compressed explosive gas onboard a vehicle destined to meet a guardrail at high speed one day.
Battery technology will certainly go through a revolution w/ all of the investment these days, but the argument to not buy in the near term is similar to not getting a new phone because something better may come out. For the time being, 300mi + range seems more than I'd need in a typical day. (Again like a phone.. I remember fearing a dead battery, now I can't imagine having a phone with a cord.)
As for used batteries, while they may not be capable of the duty that a vehicle would put on them, even without recycling (surely the next technology to be invested in) they'll make useful means of storing energy for the power grid produced from intermittent sources (such as wind or solar).
Certainly a great number of questions remain to be answered. You have to assume that with all the corporate investment these days, lots of them will be. Personally, I like the idea of a cleaner car (yes, that's even taking into account the fact that the electricity had to be made by a power plant burning gas... still way more efficient), but I also love the idea of instant, insane torque and a CG that's 8 inches off the ground. I'm going to drive that thing like an eedgit.
Even worse than that where I am, as they aren't practical for either car. We have next to no charging infrastructure & a day trip to the nearest city worth visiting currently exceeds the range of the batteries. I'd therefore have to try & charge it up again whilst I was there. Currently an electric vehicle would be about as useful to me as a chocolate fireguard. Worse still, I can't see how when we're starting from such a low point that it can conceivably become viable anytime soon.
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Neither. My pacemaker might not like it.
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Hybrid to me is a compromise with the main purpose to help automakers lower their MPG numbers. It adds additional complexity and maintenance in now having two engines to maintain on your vehicle.
I believe you either go for full EV or stay with an IC engine. We have a Tesla Model S with over 50k miles and have gone on many long road trips with it so EV vehicles can be used as an everyday car for most people. I was thinking hard about getting a model 3 before deciding to purchase the 718, but if Porsche had a full EV sports car I would have been all in with no hesitation. I love the sound of the Tesla!
As someone who has worked in electronic recycllng I would challenge the "claim" about a warehouse full of EV batteries in Belgium that no one knows what to do - EV batteries have a very good recycling value so there will always be a market to recycle them.
I believe you either go for full EV or stay with an IC engine. We have a Tesla Model S with over 50k miles and have gone on many long road trips with it so EV vehicles can be used as an everyday car for most people. I was thinking hard about getting a model 3 before deciding to purchase the 718, but if Porsche had a full EV sports car I would have been all in with no hesitation. I love the sound of the Tesla!
As someone who has worked in electronic recycllng I would challenge the "claim" about a warehouse full of EV batteries in Belgium that no one knows what to do - EV batteries have a very good recycling value so there will always be a market to recycle them.
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I am no expert but having a vast amount of compressed highly explosive liquid in the car has been happening since at least the 1970s (maybe earlier). Continental Europe has a well established network of LPG (Liquefied petroleum gas) filling stations. LPG tanks would be fitted aftermarket by specialist firms. The range on these tanks are equal to the range on a petrol tank for the same car ~300 miles 500k. I am not aware of any incidents where these tanks have exploded after a (high velocity) accident. Clearly, it could happen but it's not beyond the wit of engineers to create something which could withstand a serious crash. It might be a compromise but I'd have no hesitation owning a DD powered by hydrogen. Whether I like my sportscar to be compromised, that's another question.
If the choice was between just a hybrid or full EV I would go hybrid. Bought my car not only for short "Sunday" drives but also for full day and weekend getaways. I would be concerned about the range and charging abilities, especially with living in Colorado and driving a lot of mountain roads, stopping in small towns where charging access could be an issue. Not to mention, if we're talking sports cars here we will not always be light on the go pedal which hurts range. But as folks point out, battery technology is improving and improving quickly so in a few more years those concerns may pretty well be a thing of the past.
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This is something I know a bit about, having worked for an oil company selling LPG in a previous life...
There are two modes of LPG burning (notice I say burning, not exploding... yet!). The one everybody fantasizes about is the BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion), a catastrophic explosion, complete with a mushroom cloud/fireball. In essence, it requires a large quantity of LPG, an ignition source and a fire starting. Note that the liquid LPG is not actually burning, it turns to propane gas due to the heat and the propane gas burns. If the quantity of LPG is adequate and the heat is adequate, enough unburned gas will be produced, that when it eventually ignites, we get a mushroom cloud explosion.
If you noticed, I am using the terms adequate and enough. How much LPG does it take to get a mushroom cloud? It depends on the size and the shape of the container, but for a spill, it is about half a ton. This is what makes the application of LPG as a car fuel safe. The tanks are significantly smaller!
When the amount of LPG is not adequate for a BLEVE, it just burns, like gasoline does (yes the evaporated propane gas actually burns...).
Moving forward to hydrogen gas. When it is released, it will mix with air until the H2/O2 ratio is 2:1 (called stochiometric ratio) and then it combines explosively producing water. It is a big bang!
So, I don't think we can extrapolate the risks of using LPG as car fuel to using H2...
Sorry & no offence, but I'd have to question that statement. Whether an electric vehicle is suitable for use as your everyday car rather depends on where you live. For myself it would be absolutely useless as we currently lack charging infrastructure & I'm far from being the only one in that situation. So currently suitable for most people as their everyday car? I very much doubt it.
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