Full electric or hybrid, which would you choose?

7811 Views 57 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Porsche2018, May 31, 2019

X2Board

Discussion Starter · May 2, 2019

Jalopnik article

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DriveInHouston

· #19 · May 8, 2019 (Edited)

Nosmo said:
I am no expert but having a vast amount of compressed highly explosive liquid in the car has been happening since at least the 1970s (maybe earlier). Continental Europe has a well established network of LPG (Liquefied petroleum gas) filling stations. LPG tanks would be fitted aftermarket by specialist firms. The range on these tanks are equal to the range on a petrol tank for the same car ~300 miles 500k. I am not aware of any incidents where these tanks have exploded after a (high velocity) accident. Clearly, it could happen but it's not beyond the wit of engineers to create something which could withstand a serious crash. It might be a compromise but I'd have no hesitation owning a DD powered by hydrogen. Whether I like my sportscar to be compromised, that's another question.

This is something I know a bit about, having worked for an oil company selling LPG in a previous life...

There are two modes of LPG burning (notice I say burning, not exploding... yet!). The one everybody fantasizes about is the BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion), a catastrophic explosion, complete with a mushroom cloud/fireball. In essence, it requires a large quantity of LPG, an ignition source and a fire starting. Note that the liquid LPG is not actually burning, it turns to propane gas due to the heat and the propane gas burns. If the quantity of LPG is adequate and the heat is adequate, enough unburned gas will be produced, that when it eventually ignites, we get a mushroom cloud explosion.

If you noticed, I am using the terms adequate and enough. How much LPG does it take to get a mushroom cloud? It depends on the size and the shape of the container, but for a spill, it is about half a ton. This is what makes the application of LPG as a car fuel safe. The tanks are significantly smaller!

When the amount of LPG is not adequate for a BLEVE, it just burns, like gasoline does (yes the evaporated propane gas actually burns...).

Moving forward to hydrogen gas. When it is released, it will mix with air until the H2/O2 ratio is 2:1 (called stochiometric ratio) and then it combines explosively producing water. It is a big bang!

So, I don't think we can extrapolate the risks of using LPG as car fuel to using H2...

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DriveInHouston

· #29 · May 9, 2019

Porsche2018 said:
Interesting table from Wikipedia especially the column on the extreme right "% Plug-in passenger cars on the road". Maybe electric cars are the wave of the future but I will need to see higher adoption rates before I am convinced.

I think you are an easy case to convince...

The first time a Tesla taxi blow your doors going by, you'll be driving to the Tesla dealership on your way home!...

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DriveInHouston

· #39 · May 10, 2019

In my opinion, plug-in EVs are transitional. Once the major battery technology gains are established, the next move (possibly mandated) will be for standardized, fast removable, interchangeable batteries (like getting a tank of gas, albeit with the tank included... you drive into the battery bay in the battery station, car gets lifted, a robotic litter takes the empty battery away, another robotic litter installs the new set, a robotic arm cleans your windshield as the car is dropped from the lift and off you go, in 15 seconds!).

The batteries will belong to a consortium of manufacturers and you may or may not have the option to charge them at home.

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DriveInHouston

· #46 · May 11, 2019

greywing said:
Giving credit where credit is due, Elon Musk is probably most responsible for the existence of these facilities in support of his investment in the Tesla brand. He has also experimented with the notion of drive-in battery replacement stations as a substitute for recharging stations while traveling. But this notion seems to be a higher cost way to solve the charging infrastructure issue.

I believe the main issue with choosing the charger route (disregarding the home charging which can always be available) is the rapid development of battery technology. Musk (or anyone else) would not want to be locked in a standardized battery and have some other manufacturer eat their lunch.

Once the technology settles and the incremental gains become small, there is room for the manufacturers (and other companies) to have (standardized) battery swap/charging stations. After all, none of us has his own refinery in the garage, we all buy standard gasoline at the gas station.

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