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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So there has been some talk about the GT4 being a six cylinder. I'll believe it when I see it since this has been speculated on for almost a year now. I'm not a big fan of reading the tea leaves. I'm find with finding out when it is released officially.

In any event, can a 718 be a six cylinder? After all the marketing of the F4 harkening back to the F4 of the original 718, doesn't this create a whole bunch of marketing incongruities? Doesn't it also just continue the problem of the mid engine/rear engine, can't get too close to a 911 spec issue that Porsche has dealt with since the introduction of the Boxster/Cayman.

Can Porsche just call the GT4, the "GT4" and not the 718 GT4 or "718 Cayman GT4"? Do they call it the 718X GT4? Just make a mid engine performance/race platform that is only marginally connected to the 718?

Overall, I'm just having some identity crisis with the 718 moniker if the there are both six cylinder and four cylinder models. :) Wouldn't be the case, in my mind, if Porsche didn't try so hard to associate the new 718 model with the old 718 model.

Just some idle thoughts....
 

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So there has been some talk about the GT4 being a six cylinder. I'll believe it when I see it since this has been speculated on for almost a year now. I'm not a big fan of reading the tea leaves. I'm find with finding out when it is released officially.

In any event, can a 718 be a six cylinder? After all the marketing of the F4 harkening back to the F4 of the original 718, doesn't this create a whole bunch of marketing incongruities? Doesn't it also just continue the problem of the mid engine/rear engine, can't get too close to a 911 spec issue that Porsche has dealt with since the introduction of the Boxster/Cayman.

Can Porsche just call the GT4, the "GT4" and not the 718 GT4 or "718 Cayman GT4"? Do they call it the 718X GT4? Just make a mid engine performance/race platform that is only marginally connected to the 718?

Overall, I'm just having some identity crisis with the 718 moniker if the there are both six cylinder and four cylinder models. :) Wouldn't be the case, in my mind, if Porsche didn't try so hard to associate the new 718 model with the old 718 model.

Just some idle thoughts....

Hardly, idle thoughts......intriguing questions............I will wait for the erudition of our quite capable 718 owners.......Chilli what is your opinion?
 

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Difficult to say.
Also in Germany it's about 50:50.
Many say F6 NA is settled, but many say not possible with a 718 batch and the current model strategie.

The photographer of the GT4 in the snow said, he heard a F6 NA while taking the photos.

But from a pure rational point F4 turbo is more likely. But I still have big hopes for a F6 NA GT4.
But big doubts about PDK. The GT4 in the snow was manual, as all other GT4 prototypes until now. So don't hope for PDK.
 

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Hardly, idle thoughts......intriguing questions............I will wait for the erudition of our quite capable 718 owners.......Chilli what is your opinion?
Wow why me? Thanks, but I have no more idea than anyone else. But for what little it's worth I'd say Semitone raises some very valid points. If the new GT4 gets a flat 6 then still calling it a 718 is little bit ridiculous, given all that's gone before. I'm not saying they won't, but I do think it would rather hurt their credibility to do so. Being as I've already seen one power kit for the Boxster or Cayman S advertised as providing 450PS I'd also be very interested to see what the power output is as well. :|
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Being the virtual Porsche armchair strategist that I am...if I was running the show I would do one the following:

1.) Stick with a 718 GT4 with a turbo flat 4. Give it a lot of power even to the point of impinging on the 911. Let the 718 engineers compete with the 911 engineers. Make it limited edition. Charge as much as they can, don't make it an incremental mid market Porsche below the 911. Use it as a halo track car to support 718 and 718S sales.

2.) Get rid of the 718 moniker for the GT4 and go six cylinder. Make it a limited production mid engine platform to compete with rear engine GT3. Jack up the price to close, if not equal to the GT3. Make the customer decide between mid engine goodness or the "prestige" of the historical 911 pedigree.

Now that I have made my preferences known, I think it is safe to say it will be neither of these.

(EDIT: Porsche is going hybrid/electric anyway. Might as well go "balls to the wall" on the ICE GT4/Spyder in the meantime.)
 

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If it's a 6 they can always just drop the "718" and call it a GT4.
One trouble with an NA 6 would be the loss of low-end torque--which may not be too serious in a "race" car.
 

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Stick with a 718 GT4 with a turbo flat 4. Give it a lot of power even to the point of impinging on the 911. Let the 718 engineers compete with the 911 engineers. Make it limited edition. Charge as much as I can, don't make it an incremental mid market Porsche below the 911. Use it as a halo track car to support 718 and 718S sales.
Makes sense!
 

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2.) Get rid of the 718 moniker for the GT4 and go six cylinder. Make it a limited production mid engine platform to compete with rear engine GT3. Jack up the price to close, if not equal to the GT3. Make the customer decide between mid engine goodness or the "prestige" of the historical 911 pedigree.
Semitone, your second point is almost exactly what I was thinking. Make it a true halo car for the mid-engine platform, but still observe the naming convention by not calling it a 718 Cayman GT4. Just call it the Cayman GT4 or Boxster GT4.
 

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Being the virtual Porsche armchair strategist that I am...if I was running the show I would do one the following:

1.) Stick with a 718 GT4 with a turbo flat 4. Give it a lot of power even to the point of impinging on the 911. Let the 718 engineers compete with the 911 engineers. Make it limited edition. Charge as much as they can, don't make it an incremental mid market Porsche below the 911. Use it as a halo track car to support 718 and 718S sales.

2.) Get rid of the 718 moniker for the GT4 and go six cylinder. Make it a limited production mid engine platform to compete with rear engine GT3. Jack up the price to close, if not equal to the GT3. Make the customer decide between mid engine goodness or the "prestige" of the historical 911 pedigree.

Now that I have made my preferences known, I think it is safe to say it will be neither of these.

(EDIT: Porsche is going hybrid/electric anyway. Might as well go "balls to the wall" on the ICE GT4/Spyder in the meantime.)
I was going to post something identical to what you said, so instead, I'll completely agree with your idea/speculation, with the exception of the price point being close to the GT3. I highly doubt they'll let the GT4 intrude on the GT3 price point. Also, I don't believe they will let the Cayman / Boxter engineers compete with the 911 engineers.
But as far as how to name the next GT4, I agree 100% to your comment!
 

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I'll completely agree with your idea/speculation, with the exception of the price point being close to the GT3. I highly doubt they'll let the GT4 intrude on the GT3 price point. Also, I don't believe they will let the Cayman / Boxter engineers compete with the 911 engineers.
But as far as how to name the next GT4, I agree 100% to your comment!
Completely, correct.......on all points the 911 is the King of the hill and that is not likely to change any time soon. I wonder if we could see the release of a GT4-RS in 2019? Though, more than likely, still priced below the GT3.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I do not follow every Porsche pronouncement, nor am I an expert in Porsche marketing. Not even well informed for that matter but...


It is my recollection, somewhere, that Porsche said, something like,"we are not in the business of making collectables we are in the business of selling cars"

It has to be obvious that both the GT4 and the Spyder, at least for a while, sold above MSRP. The GT3 has a long waiting list and people, apparently, paying ADM, when they can even get a car. It has to be obvious to Porsche that they are leaving money on the table.

Couple this together with ( guessing at the numbers from memory) about 25K 718 models and 33K 911 models worldwide which is about 25% of all their car sales. The sports cars have become the "halo" cars to sell SUVs and Sedans.

I have a Macan and have been on the Macan forum for a while. Seems like frequently ( anecdotally) there is somebody who says " I love my Macan, I went out and bought a 911" I don't think I ever saw a guy write " I love my Macan, I went out and bought a 718" My guess is Porsche sells four or five Macans for every 718 they sell.

The world has changed for Porsche in the last five years. It is clear they have thought how to re- position the Boxster/Cayman line. Going 4 cylinder, renaming, giving Boxster/Cayman same power...all of this shows they are moving things around. Given the differences in engine placement, power plant, seating and size it has to be obvious that maintaining the power plant pecking order is for the fear of hurting 911 sales is outdated, IMO.

Sure Porsche wants an entry level sports car that is affordable to more people. But, as I have said before, at some point Porsche is going to realize that the 718 can be more than something for people who can't afford a 911. ( they now have that in the Macan and it is more effective for sales) When they accept that, they will need to unleash the 718 and make the 911 earn it's place for the future, not live off it's legacy.

The goal for Porsche is to sell more cars. Keeping the 911 "King" is only an means to an end. Bringing more "prestige" or performance to the 718 line, may help the Porsche image more than hurt 911 sales. 75% of Porsche sales are not traditional sports cars, i.e. 718 or 911 models, they are the SUVs and sedans. Besides higher performance unleashed GT4s will probably be higher margin than an unleashed model.

Finally, we are getting closer and closer to electric models. When that happens, the weight distribution/handling of the car will be determined by the size/placement of the battery. I think it will be tricky maintaining the 718/911 brotherhood at that point.

OK..just the ramblings of a madman....
 

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Semitone, one again, I agree with you. To me, maintaining the perceived "pecking order" of the 718 and the 911 should not be the ultimate guiding principle at Porsche as that only artificially stunts the development of the 718 to its full potential.

Consider the differences between the Audi A4, A6 and A8. The differences primarily amount to wheelbase, engine size and opulence of interior. All three are fundamentally the same layout in that they are front engine, 4 passenger sedans. For a while, the A4 and A6 even shared the same platform.

The differences between the 718 and 911, IMO, are vastly more complicated. The 718 is a two passenger, mid-engine sports car, whereas the 911 theoretically could seat four (my friend has two child seats in his 911 and his young kids love riding in it with him and his wife) or at least three, and, most importantly, has the engine hanging over the rear axle. Platform sharing (which, to me, is the biggest threat to pecking order), is impossible.

Porsche shouldn't be afraid to unleash the full potential of the 718 as I don't think that would alter the pecking order. The 911 is Porsche. 50+ years of history says so. All of Porsche's marketing materials and pricing structures reinforce that.

Now, you will have to excuse me, as I have a date with the Angeles Crest Highway.
 

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I have a different theory that falls in line with some of what's been said (but not all) that revolves completely around Mission E -- which, of course, is being fitted at the same plant in which the 911 is, and many 718s are, built. To me, that fact is a very important one.

I think the next-gen 911 will have hybrid variants at the Carrera/Targa/Cabrio level that will completely remove direct comparisons to the 718. This will open the door for the GT4 (and, it's also rumored, the 718 Spyder, too) to have a flat six taken from one of the current-gen 991.2s and become Porsche's lowest-rung 'hot-rod' ICE car. For these models, the '718' moniker will be dropped per what @TheLip suggested.

... After two years of that, when the 718 is due to be replaced (roughly the 2021 or 2022 model year), it will either die completely or become a hybrid itself -- or, if Mission E is advanced and successful, possibly an EV. By that time, a significant portion (if not all) of the models of several significant European automakers will be EVs, including Volvo/Polestar, BMW/MINI, Jaguar, and cousins VW/Audi -- marques that Porsche competes directly with in all of its other models, including the 718. This fact tells me that Porsche may retain the 718 depending on how many other competitors are making a competing car at that stage. Right now, the upcoming 'new' Z4/Supra, the F-Type, and the TT are in play -- but Mercedes is abandoning the niche, Alfa may (and isn't competitive now anyway), and the Caddy/Chevy C8 Corvette will likely be a completely different animal by 2021.

Personally, I'm very skeptical. If I had to bet, I'd put money on the 718 becoming an EV by 2022, possibly on platform architecture shared with the TT but with Porsche-developed hardware. By then, I feel a smaller electric sports car will have significantly more universal global appeal than ICE sports cars do now. It will be sale-able if done right -- and Porsche, throughout its history, has been about making the cutting edge sale-able.
 

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I have a different theory that falls in line with some of what's been said (but not all) that revolves completely around Mission E -- which, of course, is being fitted at the same plant in which the 911 is, and many 718s are, built. To me, that fact is a very important one.

I think the next-gen 911 will have hybrid variants at the Carrera/Targa/Cabrio level that will completely remove direct comparisons to the 718. This will open the door for the GT4 (and, it's also rumored, the 718 Spyder, too) to have a flat six taken from one of the current-gen 991.2s and become Porsche's lowest-rung 'hot-rod' ICE car. For these models, the '718' moniker will be dropped per what @TheLip suggested.

... After two years of that, when the 718 is due to be replaced (roughly the 2021 or 2022 model year), it will either die completely or become a hybrid itself -- or, if Mission E is advanced and successful, possibly an EV. By that time, a significant portion (if not all) of the models of several significant European automakers will be EVs, including Volvo/Polestar, BMW/MINI, Jaguar, and cousins VW/Audi -- marques that Porsche competes directly with in all of its other models, including the 718. This fact tells me that Porsche may retain the 718 depending on how many other competitors are making a competing car at that stage. Right now, the upcoming 'new' Z4/Supra, the F-Type, and the TT are in play -- but Mercedes is abandoning the niche, Alfa may (and isn't competitive now anyway), and the Caddy/Chevy C8 Corvette will likely be a completely different animal by 2021.

Personally, I'm very skeptical. If I had to bet, I'd put money on the 718 becoming an EV by 2022, possibly on platform architecture shared with the TT but with Porsche-developed hardware. By then, I feel a smaller electric sports car will have significantly more universal global appeal than ICE sports cars do now. It will be sale-able if done right -- and Porsche, throughout its history, has been about making the cutting edge sale-able.
D a m n! I really want to disagree with your complete statement above about all these brands, Porsche included, going to EV or hybrid powerplants in the very near future, but I would be foolish not to believe that it is not only possible, but also likely... I really hate the idea! But I'm sure they will dangle enough carrots in front of us to make us forget and appreciate the new propulsion systems. As of right this moment, I hope that you are 100% wrong! :crying:
 

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The 718 will be electrified years before the 911.
I believe strongly that the 911 will be last modell in the Porsche lineup which will be completly electrified.
Macan -> 718 -> Panamera -> Cayenne -> 911

The current 718 will not have a long future.

One reason more to buy the next GT4.
 

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Maybe you have more time. 2021 is a bit early. First we will see a full electric Macan.
 
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