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2020 Boxster 718 S, Chalk, "Bella Beast"
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Im shopping for my next daily driver and have narrowed it down to a 718 T or S, a C8 HTC or a 4 cylinder AMG Emira.
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I love the T and it’s my close fav of my 3 choices but this gives me doubts. Tell me the flat 4 is not a royal pile.
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You "love the T" (flat four turbo in Porsche), yet are questioning yourself based on some garbage statements by some internet reviewer?

Trust your instinct--you would love the P flat four turbo--it simply is fantastic.

In my view, the biggest hangup of the P flat four turbo is that it raises a question debated by every P-car buyer. The flat four turbo is assumed to be 'less'. Seems this stems from many knowing of Porsche's iconic flat six and that both (the 6 and 4 turbo) are available in the 718, and the higher-cost models have the flat 6, and most buyers having heard a flat 6 wind up at some point (not that the flat 4 turbo is lame). Therefore it is assumed that the flat six is 'more' or 'better', that the flat four turbo must be 'less'. That's an inappropriate hangup IMO.
 

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BGTS40
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4.0 liter heavier for no reason. In light of the Emira. Between models, the T, S, and 4.0 all are awesome and the reasons for them are well priced.
I know this weight topic stuck with you for a while but the reason is mostly: bigger 64L fuel tank, 2 plus cylinders, better brakes and 3rd additional radiator what cost 55kg.
I don`t complain If i have a lady sitting next to me with exactly this weight, that the car suddenly feels heavy because of her. Same story here, cost vs benefit. ;)
55kg is not the end on the world (1350kg vs 1405kg) especially in the light of its benefit.
Just to clarify it.
 

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2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
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I have a new Boxster T. I also have driven the v6 Emira. The Emira is super easy to drive hard. The Boxster T is more difficult. The T is notably lighter. The Emira is very glue like on the road. I would be happy with either.

i would not bother with anything more than an S. 4.0 liter heavier for no reason. In light of the Emira. Between models, the T, S, and 4.0 all are awesome and the reasons for them are well priced. Unless you want a Porsche, i would not get a 4.0 GTS vs. an Emira. The Emira is perfectly balanced and so so real road worthy. I was blown away by the Emira. The cabin experience with the windows open on a fall day was dreamy and fun.

notice how i did not mention the AMG 2.0 liter? Yeah, Mercedes is a pile of trash.

So there’s your answer. Toyota v6 with manual gearbox or any Porsche.

imagine a Mercedes part with standard 30 lbs of boost? Lol
Just curious when and where you drove a Lotus Emira??

According to Lotus of Washington (DC) when I stopped by in September, they were "hoping" to get their first deliveries by November or December and all had been pre-sold. At that time (September 15+/-) there were no Emiras yet delivered in the USA.
 

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I have a new Boxster T. I also have driven the v6 Emira. The Emira is super easy to drive hard. The Boxster T is more difficult. The T is notably lighter. The Emira is very glue like on the road. I would be happy with either.

i would not bother with anything more than an S. 4.0 liter heavier for no reason. In light of the Emira. Between models, the T, S, and 4.0 all are awesome and the reasons for them are well priced. Unless you want a Porsche, i would not get a 4.0 GTS vs. an Emira. The Emira is perfectly balanced and so so real road worthy. I was blown away by the Emira. The cabin experience with the windows open on a fall day was dreamy and fun.

notice how i did not mention the AMG 2.0 liter? Yeah, Mercedes is a pile of trash.

So there’s your answer. Toyota v6 with manual gearbox or any Porsche.

imagine a Mercedes part with standard 30 lbs of boost? Lol
The V6 Emira weight - Cayman GTS 6M weights are pretty close to one another
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Just curious when and where you drove a Lotus Emira??

According to Lotus of Washington (DC) when I stopped by in September, they were "hoping" to get their first deliveries by November or December and all had been pre-sold. At that time (September 15+/-) there were no Emiras yet delivered in the USA.
There are a half dozen or so demo cars touring the country right now if you’re a depositor you can get a slot (if you do it quick, they fill up)
I’m on a quasi 4 cyl list at the new Philly Lotus but they won’t open their doors until summer ‘23
 

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It depends. If you are a Porsche zealot, then you might agree with him because this seems to be a common opinion among Porsche zealots, sadly.
Brilliant post, sir. Normally I disregard long posts, but you write so well and cogently. Bravo!!

I have a foot in both camps- 718 and Lotus. I can honestly say that after my monthly three hour drive in my Elise on deserted west Texas twisty roads, that my 718 GTS 2.5 chassis feels soft. I know the limits on my my Cayman are higher than the Elise, I also know the Emira weighs 3,000 pounds vs. 1,960 for the Elise.

I can agree with Lion SHF that Lotus owners are quite cool. They are a different breed- and as I've mentioned before, I live for different.

If I had to sell two of my three mid-engined cars (718 GTS 2.5, Elise, ALfa 4C)- I would keep the Elise.
 

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Just curious when and where you drove a Lotus Emira??

According to Lotus of Washington (DC) when I stopped by in September, they were "hoping" to get their first deliveries by November or December and all had been pre-sold. At that time (September 15+/-) there were no Emiras yet delivered in the USA.
I was invited to a special event a few weeks ago. I have one on order.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Brilliant post, sir. Normally I disregard long posts, but you write so well and cogently. Bravo!!

I have a foot in both camps- 718 and Lotus. I can honestly say that after my monthly three hour drive in my Elise on deserted west Texas twisty roads, that my 718 GTS 2.5 chassis feels soft. I know the limits on my my Cayman are higher than the Elise, I also know the Emira weighs 3,000 pounds vs. 1,960 for the Elise.

I can agree with Lion SHF that Lotus owners are quite cool. They are a different breed- and as I've mentioned before, I live for different.

If I had to sell two of my three mid-engined cars (718 GTS 2.5, Elise, ALfa 4C)- I would keep the Elise.
Should I keep my 380hp tuned TT as a daily and buy a 4c spider for $55? I never had a garage car.
 

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Really not sure where this then started from or how it has now evolved.
lotus, like maybe Alfa are lovely and desirable cars - this a given.
both though are honestly [email protected] when it comes to reliability - this also a given And the support is not much better.
if lotus has now pulled off the dream, which I doubt, then all fair play and I will apologise five-food but as yet, they have not.
new lotus does look nice, I did spec one up to just compare and understand but cannot help thinking, this is not a good idea longer term And would I be happy with it over the 718 - No I would not.
so there we go.
finally, it’s a 718 forum which I really do enjoy for all the benefits, I really do not need to justify having a 718 over anything else and will continue to just advise,this is the car for me. I will also advise that it is indeed a keeper, I am so happy, actually better is I am very proud to be an owner and part of this forum.
 

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We all have opinions and here, we call have cars that matter to us.

I'm on my first Porsche. I sold a AMG C63 to get it and I also have a Morgan 4.8L Plus 8, from 2104 (sorry USA, you never got them!)
Transmission? PDK in the Boxster S, ZF 6 speed automatic in the Morgan.
Which is best?
Both.
The Morgan motor is the one familiar to many in North America in the BMW X5 (E53) SUV. It is naturally aspirated and delivers peak torque and power towards the top of the rev range. Other than ABS in the Morgan it has NO, repeat NO computerised driver aids. It sounds amazing, drinks fuel and brings out the beast. A day to day drive it is not. A few were offered with a manual 6 speed box: 4 would have been enough. It weighs 200kg less than the Boxster S.

The Porsche "S" flat 4 spins like a top, has linear torque from low revs and even with the computer stability and driver support stuff could be a challenge as a manual. As an Auto it is a day to day drive AND as beast all in one car. It sounds angry, with the Sport Exhaust, it is good for a turbo, but to my mind nothing, ever, sounds as good as a naturally aspirated V8.

Where am I going with this? Listen to yourself, not "experts". Back in the early 70s at University one of the mandatory support units was called "Fundamentals of Science". The message was "Believe nothing you cannot verify yourself". I followed this message in science, business and choosing cars.
 

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Sold the CPO '17 BS for a new '22 BGTS. Yet, I loved the BS as much as I do the BGTS. Neither were/are DD's or used in rush hour traffic. Regardless, I will state unequivocally that I adored the T4 and miss its low end grunt (not to mention its angry baritone growl) on B-roads and at the track. BS (no PTV/LSD) laps at the local 1.8 mile track were marginally faster than the 4.0L, yet slightly slower than the NA6 at COTA. Both cars handle as if my steering inputs were generated telepathically. Their personalities aren't identical, only minutely different in a fraternal twins sort of way. The only reason we sold the BS was due to tracking limp mode issues specific to the 2017's and 2018's.

@224 PJ's message "Believe nothing you cannot verify yourself" couldn't be more true.

To paraphrase, go forth and verify.
 

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The Porsche "S" flat 4 spins like a top, has linear torque from low revs and even with the computer stability and driver support stuff could be a challenge as a manual. As an Auto it is a day to day drive AND as beast all in one car. It sounds angry, with the Sport Exhaust, it is good for a turbo, but to my mind nothing, ever, sounds as good as a naturally aspirated V8.
I'm on the same page. Owning an Audi RS 5 with the naturally aspirated 8500RPM redline 4.2L V8, I don't look to Porsche flat sixes to satisfy the need for a good sounding engine so I chose the tuneability and low end power of the turbo one instead.
 

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Sorry guys, not a troll. Do you like your 4s or not?
Wow, this is a long thread. I love my 2.0L Cayman. Not sure what the guy on the other forum was talking about, but I'm also very interested in the Emira...but I can tell you that his opinion of the 2.0L being "lifeless" and laggy are not my experience at all. Then again, I always keep mine in Sport mode. Either way, not a pile of crap at all.
 

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Sorry guys, not a troll. Do you like your 4s or not?
My wife and I are very happy with our turbo 4. We had a previous generation flat 6 Cayman and was happy with it. To each his own - I don't think they sound "bad", just different. You need to decide. I doubt there is anyone on this forum that is not happy with the car.

That being said I would not have it as my every day driver. I have a Toyota Highlander for that. The 718 ride is harsh, the interior is noisy, seats stiff, little room for groceries or anything else, and I have to worry about where I park it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Sold the CPO '17 BS for a new '22 BGTS. Yet, I loved the BS as much as I do the BGTS. Neither were/are DD's or used in rush hour traffic. Regardless, I will state unequivocally that I adored the T4 and miss its low end grunt (not to mention its angry baritone growl) on B-roads and at the track. BS (no PTV/LSD) laps at the local 1.8 mile track were marginally faster than the 4.0L, yet slightly slower than the NA6 at COTA. Both cars handle as if my steering inputs were generated telepathically. Their personalities aren't identical, only minutely different in a fraternal twins sort of way. The only reason we sold the BS was due to tracking limp mode issues specific to the 2017's and 2018's.

@224 PJ's message "Believe nothing you cannot verify yourself" couldn't be more true.

To paraphrase, go forth and verify.
Yup drove a 981 base auto (hated it ) and an 18 base Boxster 6 speed. Liked the C8 more than either but I’m looking forward to pushing a pre owned T. The vette is too **** big, it’s annoying.
 

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Im shopping for my next daily driver and have narrowed it down to a 718 T or S, a C8 HTC or a 4 cylinder AMG Emira. I’m on hold for many months as I wait to test drive the Emira. I’m active on all three boards and there’s been really interesting Emira test drive reviews posted recently as the demo cars tour Europe and here.
Anyhow, a big p car guy wrote a great in-depth review of the manual V6 Emira (he loved it) and told us he has tons of seat time in the 4 cylinder 718s. So I asked this very qualified guy ‘should I buy a PDK 4 cylinder 718 (budget $80k) or the 4 cylinder AMG DCT Emira?”
this is what he wrote:

“I've driven quite a few 718 2.0 and 2.5s, never the 4.0 GTS. The turbo flat 4s in the cayman/ boxster are a royal pile of crap haha. They heavily, heavily detract from the experience. Very quick, very capable. But entirely lifeless. Arguably sound bad. Don't expect subaru flat 4 warble. It sounds almost 2.0l diesel ford transit van-like. It's also an incredibly boosty, laggy engine.”

I love the T and it’s my close fav of my 3 choices but this gives me doubts. Tell me the flat 4 is not a royal pile. I’d add AWE muffler and JB4.
thx the rick
So close to Thanksgiving, all that’s missing from the Turkey, is the dressing. ;)
 
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