[JadR]

Strangest thing happened yesterday - lost 3rd gear on my manual 718 Cayman S - 3rd gear has the same effect as neutral - Dash says 3rd, but when the clutch is released no gear is engaged. I could roll to a stop, go to neutral, back to 3rd, release the clutch at 0 mph and the car will not stall. The car is in the emergency room and Porsche has been great so far - They've taken the car on 25 min notice and immediately started looking into it. 20 years of driving nothing but manual and i've never had that happen before...

Any record of this happening to anyone else?

 

[Acky]

Interesting, similar effect that a lot of GT4 owner had after track use.

 

[konakihotel]

My 718 Cayman is also manual but i have no problems with the gearbox...

 

[afiasi]

Sorry to hear about what happened to you. I also have a 718 Cayman S manual. Now going on 6k miles and no issues at all. Let us know what Porsche finds out--- hopefully you'll have your 718 back home soon!

 

[agent 86]

Keep us posted.

How many miles does your car have?

I have a manual Cayman S with 2200 miles. So far, no problems.

 

[JadR]

5000 miles, I got delivery in December. They gave me a white Cayenne S with an "organ red" interior. I feel like I'm sitting on the 3rd floor.

Still no updates, just that they haven't found the problem yet - I went to pick up my parking transponder yesterday and they had the car raised, the computers hooked up, and about 5 people working on it. They are apparently liaising with the technical team in Germany and can't open the gearbox here (Dubai). They mentioned that they might have to swap it...in any case it's home to Toronto for me for 2 weeks, so looks they'll be keeping her a while.

Even if they swap the gearbox, i'll ask Porsche to explain the issue - I assumed it was a shifter cable snapping but i imagine that they would have found the problem by now if it was that simple. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[JadR]

Update #2

So it's not the cables, not the software as they've installed the updates with no result - there's also no metallic residue in the transmission oil, nor is there any grinding noise out of the transmission which also means that the internals of the gearbox should be completely intact.

One thing that i find unacceptable though is that the cars undergoing service/repairs are often parked outside in blistering Dubai summer heat and humidity (although the parking is shaded). I found out that that's where they were intending on occasionally keeping my car during the next 2 weeks given that I'll be in Canada. My parking spot at home is underground and temp controlled and that's where the car would have been kept. This is a 2017 model that I've purchased brand new and that now has a defect - I should not have to worry about how a car that I've ordered from direct the factory is treated while in Porsche's own possession. This hurts my perception of the brand.

I did get annoyed and they promised me that they would make sure car is kept indoors, but how can i verify that simple
fact while overseas? I am beginning to get annoyed with this whole issue...

Does anyone from Porsche Public Realations monitor these chats?

 

[GregW]

Update #2
<snip>
Does anyone from Porsche Public Realations monitor these chats?

I doubt it. If you want corporate Porsche involved I suspect you'd have to involve them yourself. Good luck.

Greg

 

[photonscience]

5000 miles, I got delivery in December. They gave me a white Cayenne S with an "organ red" interior. I feel like I'm sitting on the 3rd floor.

Still no updates, just that they haven't found the problem yet - I went to pick up my parking transponder yesterday and they had the car raised, the computers hooked up, and about 5 people working on it. They are apparently liaising with the technical team in Germany and can't open the gearbox here (Dubai). They mentioned that they might have to swap it...in any case it's home to Toronto for me for 2 weeks, so looks they'll be keeping her a while.

Even if they swap the gearbox, i'll ask Porsche to explain the issue - I assumed it was a shifter cable snapping but i imagine that they would have found the problem by now if it was that simple. I'll keep you guys posted.

My own experience with transmission problems in new cars would lead me to believe that they'll just replace the whole transmission and be done with it. Hopefully, you'll forget this painful experience in a few months of pleasurable driving.

 

[Acky]

I am pretty surprised that the Porsche Center thought they can fix the gone 3rd gear with a software update....
In the end, you will get a new transmission.

I think it's the same problem as with a lot of GT4s
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/954397-gt4-g81-transmission-failure.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/961476-gt4-transmission-failure-database.html

 

[Sonny]

I had a similar problem with my previous 2012 Boxster. I was told there they found an extra nut in the bell housing which worked its way into the transmission. That may not be your problem but they replaced the transmission and clutch.

 

[JadR]

So the update - they are in fact replacing the transmission but it looks like it will take an indefinite amount of time. They got the parts today but found out that the actual transmission is not part of the shipment and is unfortunately on back-order. So they don't know when it will be produced and shipped. Once received, sometime in the future (2 weeks? 2 months?), it will take 2 business days to be installed, and 2 days to be tested - and this is by the local garage in Dubai and not by expert technicians in Germany - i obviously find that completely unacceptable. This is 2017, i did not buy a pre-owned car. I tailored and ordered a brand new car and this is the result?

I will do some digging to find out whom i can contact in Germany to get them involved as I don't believe that Porsche Middle East will come through without Corporate in Germany being involved.

Any help from you guys in terms of whom to contact would be awesome.

The especially annoying part is that the car's transmission will be installed and tested locally and not in the factory. the other ridiculous part is that the factory warranty is 2 years and looks like the car may spend 1 month or more of those 24 in Porsche's possession which is also bonkers - at which point i will be asked to pay to extend the warranty another 2 years. This is not the experience i was expecting.

 

[Sonny]

JadR,

I had a different experience but I understand your frustration. The dealer told me there were no 6-speed manual transmissions in North America so they would have to order one from Germany. When I bought my 2012 Boxster is was technically used (204 miles). It was the grand prize at an Arizona Casino, however, the winner didn't want it so they sold it back to the dealer. Shortly after that I just happened to be at the dealer and purchased it. The dealer had my car for a total of 10 days. I assume the transmission flown to America. The replacement transmission had no effect on my 4 year warranty. Sorry you are having so much trouble. My experince tells me Porsche is not the problem.

 

[JadR]

Actually so far you're right - no complaints other than the obvious one and their initial desire to store the car in the exterior desert heat. I guess I'm more worried than anything - that the car won't be the same and that it'll take an eternity.

But I feel the need to sing the praises of the 718 for a sec. The reality is that the 6 months I've had with the car so far have turned me into a 12 year old eager to get to the car every morning. I never thought that the ride would be this comfortable, the electronics that intuitive. The handling is beyond direct and the car is flatter on the curves than anything I've ever driven. I often drive the car without the electronic aids an i'm surprised to say that the car is incredibly forgiving. This is why i want my car back ASAP !

And what else would i ever get within the same breed? An F-type? Never. An M2? it's fun but not in the same realm in terms of on road composure. It also looks a little like a teenager's toy racer. A '17 Stingray would be interesting if not for the embarrassing exterior but i have to admit I've never driven a 'vette...although i'd love to.

 

[JadR]

That corvette is starting to look more interesting...

19 days since the disappearance of 3rd gear

The update is that they still have no update - the transmission is still on back order.

How long do they expect me to wait? Should my warranty not be extended by the length of time my car is in their possession? Did I buy a new 2017 718 to drive it in 2018?

So many questions.

I will be heading back from Toronto to Dubai on Wednesday - I have requested a replacement car and escalation of the issue as well as an approximate timeline. They gave me a pretty weak reply stating that the part is custom and hence, this is why it's taking so long. Maybe the part should not have failed int the first place.

 

[Nlongfellow]

That corvette is starting to look more interesting...

19 days since the disappearance of 3rd gear

The update is that they still have no update - the transmission is still on back order.

How long do they expect me to wait? Should my warranty not be extended by the length of time my car is in their possession? Did I buy a new 2017 718 to drive it in 2018?

So many questions.

I will be heading back from Toronto to Dubai on Wednesday - I have requested a replacement car and escalation of the issue as well as an approximate timeline. They gave me a pretty weak reply stating that the part is custom and hence, this is why it's taking so long. Maybe the part should not have failed int the first place.

I remember researching this a couple months back when I saw posts about this on another forum. There are posts somewhere out there from years back that identified what the exact defect was that year (welds to something like that). It's a totally common issue from what I came across. Lots of people had the same issue. Dealers should know about it unless the techs are newer. But it looked to be limited to that timeframe from what I read. The fix is a replacement (as you're doing) I do remember reading proof that the replacement part was improved mid cycle (changed part ID, etc.). Not sure if it was a defect from a first gen model or not.

 

[JadR]

Update August 25 2017

I'd like this post to provide fair warning do owners and potential buyers of manual gearbox cars.

It was not an easy decision to order the 718, but i wanted treat myself. Live a little. Now i regret it and wish i had stayed away.

Porsche tells me that i'm lucky that they are willing to replace the manual gearbox blaming me for what is (to me) obviously a factory defect. They are also threatening not to allow me to extend my warranty beyond the 2 years thereby eroding my peace of mind/resale value in one fell swoop. I only have 8000 km on the car and that it is a 2017 718 Cayman S. I anxiously await their verdict like a judgement. All the joy has been sucked out of ownership.

In 315 hours of driving, they are saying that i have spend 0.72 seconds in the 7900-8400 rpm range and 0.39 seconds in the 8400-9500 rpm range and that's enough to damage the engine and the transmission. I have driven a manual 1998 Passat B5 for 10 years (250,000 km) and 2010 manual Passat CC for 8 years (75,000 km) without ever having to replace a transmission - no major engine faults - I understand that the 718 Cayman S 4 cyl boxer engine is a performance drivetrain, but does that forgive such fragility? shouldn't it actually be manufactured to higher tolerances and aren't these same engineering tolerances meant to forgive a couple of overrevving events?

To give the full story, I did spend 12.8 seconds of these 315 hours in the 7200-7900 range. redline is around 7400-8000 rpm) - I give all the facts to get a fair opinion from the technical members of the forum.

What does the 718forum community at large think - am i right to think that the actuaries are running Porsche. Btw those 2 overrevving events happened at hour 82 and hour 94 of operation and the transmission lost 3rd gear at hour 315.

Any engineers, actuaries (future leaders of the world) - I'd love to hear your thoughts in particular.

Cheers.

 

[jthailer]

Curious how the over revs happened? My initial reaction is 12.8 seconds is a lot of time in any over rev range.

I assume the over revs happened due to early downshift as the car will cut fuel when accelerating once it reaches red-line.

 

[photonscience]

Update August 25 2017

I'd like this post to provide fair warning do owners and potential buyers of manual gearbox cars.
In 315 hours of driving, they are saying that i have spend 0.72 seconds in the 7900-8400 rpm range and 0.39 seconds in the 8400-9500 rpm range and that's enough to damage the engine and the transmission. To give the full story, I did spend 12.8 seconds of these 315 hours in the 7200-7900 range. redline is around 7400-8000 rpm) - I give all the facts to get a fair opinion from the technical members of the forum.

The 718 engine has a rev limiter and so the engine may not have been damaged on the upshift. The rev-limiter has no effect on downshifting, so if you blew a downshift and the drivetrain hit 9000 rpm, you can cause damage. You wouldn't be the first person to blow a drivetrain with a bad downshift.

OTOH, I totally understand and sympathize with your frustration - w really have very limited information on the ruggedness and overall longevity of this new drivetrain and you could be correct that it was partially engineered by "bean-counters".

Glad they will replace the trans. for you.

I has a somewhat similar experience with a Audi R8. It got rear-ended at 5 mph, but that was enough to drive the bumper into the rear transmission case and mis-align the whole transmission. The transmission was making horrible noises, which the Audi service manager said was "normal" (no sir, I'm not a dumbchit). I had to fight Audi and the insurance company but finally got a new transmission. How's that for engineering - the drivetrain on a $190K car couldn't take a 5 mph hit.

 

[JadR]

Thanks for the replies gents - you're right, the 12.8 seconds were in fact likely on the up-shift or below the cutoff - only the 1.1 seconds likely due to downshift were spent above the cutoff over 2 separate sub 1 second events. They occurred more than 220 hours before i lost 3rd gear.

Also, the last time i went above 7200 was 54 hours before the fault.

That, and the longevity of my previous cars despite hard driving make me doubt that those two early events are to blame.

In other words i would love to know for sure. These days 350 hp is not that much, and the car is rather light - high performance cannot be used as an excuse and engineering tolerances should be higher especially for a car meant to double as a road and track vehicle with the price and reputation of a Porsche. If this model were a pure race car, then i would understand 1.1 seconds over two events slowly sending it to Valhalla. We should all have Edd China as a close personal friend.

These companies have become so large and impersonal and out of touch with their own immense driving heritage. On that note, i recently watched "The 24 Hour War" telling the story of the Ferrari-Ford LeMans rivalry in the 60's. Highly recommend it.
@photonscience - I'm glad that you managed to get them to replace it, but these companies should address this resistance to help their customers and should do a better job of identifying drive-train abuse. As for Audi, my Dad had a crack in a cylinder in his 2.0T A4 and the car was just out of warranty. Audi recognized that this should not have happened and replaced the whole engine at no cost - they did however resist at first.