I'm not new to manual transmissions however since picking up my new 718 Cayman, M6 last week I'm having trouble getting it into reverse... sometimes I seem to get the shifter through some secret passageway into reverse while most if the time I feel like it's very resistant to move to the dog leg left into reverse! This is my first Porsche, is this typical? Does it loosen up over time, does it need an adjustment? Yikes. Help!
Manual transmission, hard to put into reverse!
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I'm so used to Porsche 6-speeds for last 15 years, can't say if they are any different in this respect, but:
The 'crash-through' gate is spring-loaded with a fair amount of resistance. Two distinct movements of the stick involved -- first is hard-left (to 9 o'clock position) with some force, to break past the crash-through gate, then an easy normal slot up to reverse. I suppose if you tried angling the dog-leg up to reverse from neutral in one motion (like any forward gear) it might behave as you described.
I think that crash-through gate resistance may loosen-up a bit from new....but if your learned instinctive motion is to 'pop' that first movement through the gate, you don't really notice the spring tension so much....
The 'crash-through' gate is spring-loaded with a fair amount of resistance. Two distinct movements of the stick involved -- first is hard-left (to 9 o'clock position) with some force, to break past the crash-through gate, then an easy normal slot up to reverse. I suppose if you tried angling the dog-leg up to reverse from neutral in one motion (like any forward gear) it might behave as you described.
I think that crash-through gate resistance may loosen-up a bit from new....but if your learned instinctive motion is to 'pop' that first movement through the gate, you don't really notice the spring tension so much....
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It must be "North of Toronto thing" - because I also had some difficulty with the reverse/first gear on my 17 Boxster. I looked for some other mentions on the internet, but nobody seemed to have even heard of this. There are not that many of us Boxster MT drivers - to begin with. Found one 911 owner ( North of Toronto too
) who had similar experiences, but not as bad as mine.I put it in reverse a couple of times at traffic lights instead of 1st gear... Could've been really bad
Fortunately the camera came on as soon as I put in reverse, giving me enough time to correct.To make a long story short - I installed a short shift kit (the one from Suncoast) to improve on shifting feel in general and hoping to fix this issue too.
It is night and day compared to the stock shifter. No issues ever since, and shifting just feels the way it should. I have a write-up somewhere on this site.
Note: - all my daily drives since 2002 were MT, so it's not like I haven't driven manual either. Just to prevent comments on learning to drive stick
I'll keep fiddling with it. 500km on the car in four days. And sometimes I can get reverse while other times there is a brief panic that I'll look like a dufus that cannot find the reverse gear!!! I'd say I'm a good standard trans driver having driven dozens of my own manual cars + formula 2000 race cars 'back in the day'. All other forward gears work nice although there is not a lot of sound deadening in the Cayman making any small mistakes with the gearbox noticeable. Thanks for the tips - I'll let the car break in some more and see how it goes. I am still at the stage of goosebumps when starting the car - hope this won't go away!
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I suppose it could be a mechanical issue with reverse-synchro in the gearbox. Definitely doesn't sound right so do get it checked-out under warranty.
@winter.zed -- I drove the factory-installed short shifter on my 987 (they had it as a factory option then) for 12 years. The 718 shifter feels no different that I can tell apart from a bit smoother and precise....the absence of a factory-approved short-shifter for 718 tells me they engineered most of the differences away. Be that as it may, balking at slotting into reverse as described by @Getgoing *or* grabbing reverse instead of first as you describe, seems like a separate issue from the height of shifter or length of throw. I suspect you had a mis-adjusted shift linkage/assembly that the kit installation happened to fix.
Note to Forum manual drivers: I checked into the short-shifter kit offered by Suncoast, and even with dealer installation it is not factory-authorized or covered under warranty. Otherwise I'd have it installed myself just for whatever small increment of improvement it offers.
@winter.zed -- I drove the factory-installed short shifter on my 987 (they had it as a factory option then) for 12 years. The 718 shifter feels no different that I can tell apart from a bit smoother and precise....the absence of a factory-approved short-shifter for 718 tells me they engineered most of the differences away. Be that as it may, balking at slotting into reverse as described by @Getgoing *or* grabbing reverse instead of first as you describe, seems like a separate issue from the height of shifter or length of throw. I suspect you had a mis-adjusted shift linkage/assembly that the kit installation happened to fix.
Note to Forum manual drivers: I checked into the short-shifter kit offered by Suncoast, and even with dealer installation it is not factory-authorized or covered under warranty. Otherwise I'd have it installed myself just for whatever small increment of improvement it offers.
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.. ...I recently "borrowed" a new 718 MT Cayman S for a day. No issues with reverse...neutral position, HARD left through "crash gate" at the 9 o'clock position, then of course, forward....if this cannot be accomplished without issue, you might want to have it checked by your service department.
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The reverse "crash gate" on my car is very stiff; my wife uses two hands to shift into reverse.
Like Winter.Zed, a few times I have also shifted into reverse instead of 1st at a red light. Sometimes the "crash gate" resistance seems to disappear when the engine or transmission are warm. It's too bad the selected gear is not displayed on the dash when the clutch is depressed. Now I make sure I can "feel" 2nd before shifting into 1st.
I'll mention this to the dealer during the first scheduled maintenance in a few months.
Like Winter.Zed, a few times I have also shifted into reverse instead of 1st at a red light. Sometimes the "crash gate" resistance seems to disappear when the engine or transmission are warm. It's too bad the selected gear is not displayed on the dash when the clutch is depressed. Now I make sure I can "feel" 2nd before shifting into 1st.
I'll mention this to the dealer during the first scheduled maintenance in a few months.
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Or a North American thing. I too find reverse a little recalcitrant. And for the record, I have two other manuals currently and have owned and driven sticks since 1972. On an occasion or two I've found myself in first when thinking I was in reverse. I think the issue arises as its really a two step, rather than single step motion. The move left has to completely separate from any move up. Its easy to move slightly forward while pulling the lever toward you and its just balks and slides into first. Just have to do a deliberate one, two with it and its fine.It must be "North of Toronto thing"...
Note: - all my daily drives since 2002 were MT, so it's not like I haven't driven manual either. Just to prevent comments on learning to drive stick
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If the resistance comes not from a spring but some form of hydraulic tappet, this makes sense. Let us know what your service tech says.
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I have never had difficulty putting a car into reverse until my 718 either. It seems like going into reverse is less about force and more about speed when going past the crash gate. If I pull left quickly, it goes right past. If I go slowly, it will make the vein pop up on my bicep. My wife can not get past the crash gate slowly. She has no difficulty at all if she moves quickly.
Been trying the quick left 9oclock then up and it's worked pretty well. I was just trying to be too gentle with my new ride... If I go slowly and try to ease the shifter up it feels incredibly stiff and if I keep pushing it feels like it will do some damage. But a quick firm movement and the reverse channel opens up nicely. Thanks for all the input guys.
Just picked up the GT4 and as the thread starter had experienced, it is hard to find the reverse not to mention the clutch is heavy (well heavier than the manuals I've driven). Is the gear lever stiff to begin with? I found it quite hard to move between them. I expected to push down on the stick before moving to "R"...
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I think it is very easy to find reverse. You just have to understand the technique to access it - push through the gate that safely separates it from the forward gears, there is no push down movement required. Yes, it is a very deliberate move and the gate is such that it requires a bit of effort but the idea is that you don't access it by mistake.
The gear lever is stiff and meant to be that way. Listen to any videos of GT4s on YouTube and you can hear the mechanical 'click' 'clack' through the gates. Instead of 'stiff' think of it as 'positive' or 'direct' as opposed to 'loose' or 'vague' - neither of which are desirable traits in a gearbox. One thing you will notice is that the gearbox takes a while to reach its optimum operating window. In the beginning the selector is quite stiff, I find second gear to be particularly so, as a result my early gearshifts are very deliberate/considered but once things reach operating temp the gearbox feel becomes a lot more natural.
Interestingly enough I was reading an article on Ferrari GT cars and there was one particular model (can't remember which one) where, until the gearbox oil had reached operating temperature, you couldn't access second gear without heel and toe-ing the gear change.
Does the kit eliminate the forced 6th to 3rd downshift? Gearbox does not want to downshift to 5th. I must remember to keep pressure to the right on the stick if I want 5th instead of 3rd.
Been driving manuals for over 65 years so no comments about learning to drive a stick.
I installed a short shifter in mine and the biggest benefit, IMHO, is that the extra resistance to get into 1, 2, 5, and 6 gears make the shifting pattern more distinct. The stock shifter was so smooth it allowed my shifting to be way too sloppy (through lack of attention) and I'd end up in 3rd instead of 5th unexpectedly, or 2nd to 5th in an exciting pinch. Not the case now and no danger of accidentally hitting R.Does the kit eliminate the forced 6th to 3rd downshift? Gearbox does not want to downshift to 5th. I must remember to keep pressure to the right on the stick if I want 5th instead of 3rd.
Been driving manuals for over 65 years so no comments about learning to drive a stick.
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Old thread but worth resurrecting. I have been driving manuals for 35yrs but I have also found difficult finding reverse but reading through this thread perhaps I need to bit a little more 'determined'' pushing to the left of the gate.
As above I also notice a little reluctance going from 1st to 2nd from cold and have to make the change very slowly.
The other thing I noticed today is that when stationary and selecting 1st with the window lowered you can really hear the click clack linkage sound when selecting a gear (in fact selecting any gear if not moving). Can anyone confirm this is normal?
Thanks all Rob
As above I also notice a little reluctance going from 1st to 2nd from cold and have to make the change very slowly.
The other thing I noticed today is that when stationary and selecting 1st with the window lowered you can really hear the click clack linkage sound when selecting a gear (in fact selecting any gear if not moving). Can anyone confirm this is normal?
Thanks all Rob
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I do not have a problem putting it in reverse, In fact, I would like more resistance. Sometimes, if in a hurry, like being lost in a daydream when a very long red light turns green, my quick flick from neutral to the 1st-2nd gate overshoots the resistance into reverse. This is a very minor problem but I perceive nothing different with this shifter than the many that came before it and that makes me think maybe your shift linkage needs a bit of adjustment.
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