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on order: 718 GTS 4.0
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

So a little dilemma has fallen into my lap.

I ordered a car back in August last year, but I still have a long wait ahead - no confirmed build, Dealer advises forecast build of Quarter 3 and I am No.10 in the queue with the Dealer. I have no idea if No 10 is good or bad ? It sounded bad when he told me a few weeks ago when I asked for an update, but I don't know where I was in the queue when I ordered back in August. If I was No 11 in August and have only bumped up 1 place in 5 months then I'm worried, but if I was 20 and I've moved up 10 then that is not so bad.
Part of me is still a bit concerned about the length of time I have still have to wait and and with no idea on how likely my Q3 build is, the chance to grab an actual car does sound appealing.

So the dilemma - an almost new car pretty much to my exact spec has come available - it is a 2 month old car with just 1,200 miles on the clock. So pretty much as good as new.

There are a number of positives to making a play for this car:
1) its available NOW
2) I can sell my current car and it will be worth more than it will be towards the end of the year when a new build becomes available
3) As a consequence of the above, my price to change is quite a bit less if I swap now as the nearly new car is £5k less and my part ex will be worth a lot more now.

The negatives are:
1) The stock car is a manual and I ordered a PDK - I was on the fence though re manual vs PDK but as a daily and new order I went PDK.
So trying to get my head around how I would feel opting for the manual after all ?
It would be my daily but I do have use of my wife's car for long journeys etc (that is a tesla and its a company car).
Would I actually enjoy / prefer the interaction of the manual box, plus I only do approx 5,000 miles per year in any case
2) Do the PDK cars hold their value better or is there no difference, its a Porsche so they are always likely to hold good residuals.
3) The stock car has xenons vs I ordered LED headlights, although I am not that hung up about that.
4) Although its nearly new, it is not brand new - would this take the shine off in any way
5) It is from another Dealer so I would need to get my deposit back - this would hopefully be straight forward.

Its causing me some head scratching so any thoughts / help you Guys could give would be appreciated thank you (y)
 

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475 Posts
Hi Guys,

So a little dilemma has fallen into my lap.

I ordered a car back in August last year, but I still have a long wait ahead - no confirmed build, Dealer advises forecast build of Quarter 3 and I am No.10 in the queue with the Dealer. I have no idea if No 10 is good or bad ? It sounded bad when he told me a few weeks ago when I asked for an update, but I don't know where I was in the queue when I ordered back in August. If I was No 11 in August and have only bumped up 1 place in 5 months then I'm worried, but if I was 20 and I've moved up 10 then that is not so bad.
Part of me is still a bit concerned about the length of time I have still have to wait and and with no idea on how likely my Q3 build is, the chance to grab an actual car does sound appealing.

So the dilemma - an almost new car pretty much to my exact spec has come available - it is a 2 month old car with just 1,200 miles on the clock. So pretty much as good as new.

There are a number of positives to making a play for this car:
1) its available NOW
2) I can sell my current car and it will be worth more than it will be towards the end of the year when a new build becomes available
3) As a consequence of the above, my price to change is quite a bit less if I swap now as the nearly new car is £5k less and my part ex will be worth a lot more now.

The negatives are:
1) The stock car is a manual and I ordered a PDK - I was on the fence though re manual vs PDK but as a daily and new order I went PDK.
So trying to get my head around how I would feel opting for the manual after all ?
It would be my daily but I do have use of my wife's car for long journeys etc (that is a tesla and its a company car).
Would I actually enjoy / prefer the interaction of the manual box, plus I only do approx 5,000 miles per year in any case
2) Do the PDK cars hold their value better or is there no difference, its a Porsche so they are always likely to hold good residuals.
3) The stock car has xenons vs I ordered LED headlights, although I am not that hung up about that.
4) Although its nearly new, it is not brand new - would this take the shine off in any way
5) It is from another Dealer so I would need to get my deposit back - this would hopefully be straight forward.

Its causing me some head scratching so any thoughts / help you Guys could give would be appreciated thank you (y)
Only you can decide. In a sports car, I prefer a manual gearbox. But PDK is also good - I was very satisfied with a previous PDK car.
 

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I switched back to a manual transmission after having several Ferraris and a Lamborghini with paddles. I much prefer the manual gearbox. Sure the paddles are faster but I'm not tracking my car.

Gated cars on some Ferrari models (like the F430) are pulling something like a $100k premium these days. I suspect that will be the case but to a lesser extent when these cars become classics and the manual transmission disappears.
 

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Would you consider buying the available car but leaving your deposit for a few months to see if the 6 speed is deal breaker? If you decide you like the manual you can get your deposit back in a few months, or maybe you decide you do want the PDK and maybe even other build changes and you keep your place in line.
This would be my solution.
 

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As soon as you drive your shiny new car off the lot it is a used car. This is what I tell myself when comparing new to used. As far as PDK vs manual the usual conditions apply. Get the PDK if you want to set your fastest lap times on the track or you spend a lot of time in stop-and-go traffic. Manuals can be burdensome in that situation. Get the manual if you enjoy the engagement factor.
 

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2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
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1,315 Posts
Hi Guys,

So a little dilemma has fallen into my lap.

I ordered a car back in August last year, but I still have a long wait ahead - no confirmed build, Dealer advises forecast build of Quarter 3 and I am No.10 in the queue with the Dealer. I have no idea if No 10 is good or bad ? It sounded bad when he told me a few weeks ago when I asked for an update, but I don't know where I was in the queue when I ordered back in August. If I was No 11 in August and have only bumped up 1 place in 5 months then I'm worried, but if I was 20 and I've moved up 10 then that is not so bad.
Part of me is still a bit concerned about the length of time I have still have to wait and and with no idea on how likely my Q3 build is, the chance to grab an actual car does sound appealing.

So the dilemma - an almost new car pretty much to my exact spec has come available - it is a 2 month old car with just 1,200 miles on the clock. So pretty much as good as new.

There are a number of positives to making a play for this car:
1) its available NOW
2) I can sell my current car and it will be worth more than it will be towards the end of the year when a new build becomes available
3) As a consequence of the above, my price to change is quite a bit less if I swap now as the nearly new car is £5k less and my part ex will be worth a lot more now.

The negatives are:
1) The stock car is a manual and I ordered a PDK - I was on the fence though re manual vs PDK but as a daily and new order I went PDK.
So trying to get my head around how I would feel opting for the manual after all ?
It would be my daily but I do have use of my wife's car for long journeys etc (that is a tesla and its a company car).
Would I actually enjoy / prefer the interaction of the manual box, plus I only do approx 5,000 miles per year in any case
2) Do the PDK cars hold their value better or is there no difference, its a Porsche so they are always likely to hold good residuals.
3) The stock car has xenons vs I ordered LED headlights, although I am not that hung up about that.
4) Although its nearly new, it is not brand new - would this take the shine off in any way
5) It is from another Dealer so I would need to get my deposit back - this would hopefully be straight forward.

Its causing me some head scratching so any thoughts / help you Guys could give would be appreciated thank you (y)
From my forum name, you can probably guess where I come from on the manual vs. PDK preference. I fully respect others that prefer a PDK for a variety of personal reasons. But if you are on the fence and don't have a strong reason to get a PDK (i.e. significant other that can't drive a manual), I would encourage you to go for the bird in hand. If you were #10 on the wait list at any of the relatively large dealerships in my area, your chances of getting an allocation would be marginally better than mine at winning the 2023 Masters. And I'm a 12 handicap.

A couple of other points: The PDK here costs $3,500+ more as an option. Resale value should not be a reason to get something you don't want, but you raised it, so I'm offering my perspective. Manual transmissions on 718's appear to be worth more than PDKs here in the US upon resale. Not sure about England. My 2014 Cayman S that I sold privately a year ago to make way for my 2022 GTS went for somewhere around $3-4k more than a comparable PDK. I sold it through the PCA Mart website, and the sale was to a Porsche enthusiast who only wanted a 6-speed.

Personally, I love the engagement factor of a manual transmission. I'm old school (and old) and never really got into paddle shifting, even though my BMW 540M has them. I also grew up driving a stick, as did my wife, who never found it troublesome driving an Isuzu Trooper manual transmission 100k miles through the streets of DC when our kids were in grade school. So I have no underlying reason to want to give up rowing my own, especially for a sports car. Even sitting in rush hour traffic, while I have often wished ill on the dopey driver in front of me, I have never wished ill on my third pedal.

LED headlights on my 2022 are great.....but so were the Xenons on my 2014. No reason to make a choice based upon that.

Regarding the 1,200 miles / 2 months. I would have the selling dealership provide a complete PPI and DME report. Make sure it hasn't been over-revved, since proper break in is important. Have them explain the history of the car and get comfortable that it hasn't been misused or abused in any way. Are they offering and extended CPO warranty? If not, try to negotiate for one. If you get comfortable with all of that, then don't worry.

Good luck!
 

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I would get the used with Manual as its pretty much in brand new condition with 1200 miles and Manual is going to be a lot of fun to drive. I bought a BMW X7 M50 with 1k miles and I couldn't tell any difference with brand new one. If you are number 10 at your dealer you could be waiting a very long time for your build. I don't think there will be any difference in resale value with Manual. Also if you buy the used one you can still keep your build slot and then if you don't like the manual resell the car and you probably will be able to get near what you paid for it.
 

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813 Posts
Since a MT was on your potential list of wants and this car is available now why not buy it? Leave your deposit and if/when your chance arrives you can decide if you would rather have the car you spec'd vs the car you have now. Either way you're a winner. You either keep the car you have and carry on. Or you get your dream spec and sell the car you have and probably not lose any money.
 

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on order: 718 GTS 4.0
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Everyone - I really appreciate the very constructive and thoughtful perspectives here.
I will digest it all and give a full response but just on the deposit, I would not be too comfortable keeping a live order as there is a chance I could lose some value in the other car.
I know these cars hold their money but in the first year it could tumble and by that point my £3k for the new one would be none refundable.
So my thinking would be: I go one way or the other and that's it, mind made up.
All in with nearly new or stick with the live order for a new one, no middle ground.
One of the big financial incentives to press the button now also is that my current car has just gone up in value this month after a drop in December and early January.
I'm not sure how long it will stay at this level and it could drop a lot more towards the end of the year - so a perfect time to chop my car in as it were right now.
 

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2022 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0
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33 Posts
I was in similar situation had a GTS on allocation, kept on getting delayed. Ending up finding and buying a used '22 GTS from Porsche with 2k miles with pretty much the exact same specs I wanted and in new condition. 5k miles later still in fantastic condition. MT and Sports cars go hand in hand imo, so I was fixated on getting a MT. Porsche's manual is one of the best one you can buy right now even though the gears are kind of tall. but I have nothing bad to say about the PDK, also one of the best DCT's on sale.
 

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If you can afford the potential additional expense and you'd not be overpaying for the pre-owned, this sounds like a gift not a dilemma! I'm with @Treemagnet and @SW6. I'd buy the pre-owned and keep my spot in line for the new allocation. #10 in line sounds pretty far back unless it's a particularly large volume dealer and/or you're willing to take any model (ie, if you're #10 in line for a Base or a T or another specific model, I think you're much further back than your number in line implies.) Also, after driving the pre-owned for a few months, you might be surprised to find options you thought were important aren't, and some of those you thought weren't so necessary, are. Keeping your spot in line is your chance at a do-over! Or on the other hand, you might find the pre-owned to be the perfect car for you! Good luck!
 

· Super Moderator
2021 718 Cayman GTS 4.0
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1,471 Posts
I traded in my PDK 981 for a manual GTS, as I figured it would be my last chance to order a manual transmission car. Part of that reason is age (I'm 68) but I don't think that there will be many chances for someone of any age to get a new MT car. PDK is excellent, but I am very happy with the manual. Much more enjoyable to drive.

I have to agree with Ed - tenth does not sound like a good place in line.

I have the Bi-Xenons and they are excellent.

Don't spend a lot of time worrying about future value. It's not possible to predict with any reasonable accuracy. Besides, if you are genuinely worried about what things will be worth in the future, you probably shouldn't be buying a very expensive toy in the first place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah 10th in line did concern me and I told the Dealer that and whilst he didn't (or couldn't) tell me exactly how many allocations they get a month or quarter he was still confident that Q3 build was highly likely - but it IS a concerning factor to me for sure.

This may seem an odd thing to ask, but I have not been able to fully get an understanding from the net, I would need to drive a manual again but if you Guys could advise it would be a help.

With an auto I currently have auto hand brake.
It is a very useful day to day feature.
When the car comes to a stop the handbrake is auto applied - be it at traffic lights, a junction etc.

The last manual I had was 10 years ago and that had an old style manual hand brake 'lever'
The 718 has an electronic park brake so what happens in similar situations with the car being manual gearbox.
Will a firm press of the brake pedal active the brake and hold it till you pull away or do you need to manually activate the park brake if you want to car to be safely stationary without keeping your foot on the brake ?
 

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Once I decided to order new and got on the allocation list, we sold our '17 BS and waited without a 718....for 15 months (at my age, that could have been all that was left)....definitely couldn't have been more painful. Live and learn. Regardless, had I known the time frame, there is no way I would have sold our BS before the new car arrived.

Go with your gut, but concur with those above....bird in hand.
 

· Super Moderator
2021 718 Cayman GTS 4.0
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With an auto I currently have auto hand brake.
It is a very useful day to day feature.
When the car comes to a stop the handbrake is auto applied - be it at traffic lights, a junction etc.

The last manual I had was 10 years ago and that had an old style manual hand brake 'lever'
The 718 has an electronic park brake so what happens in similar situations with the car being manual gearbox.
Will a firm press of the brake pedal active the brake and hold it till you pull away or do you need to manually activate the park brake if you want to car to be safely stationary without keeping your foot on the brake ?
I don't think that applying the parking brake at stops is taught or recommended. I have never heard of someone doing that, and I have been driving for over 50 years. I have also never heard of a car doing what you are describing.

Is there some reason that you can't leave your foot on the brake pedal while the car is running? The only time that I take my foot off the brake pedal while stopped is if I am waiting, and I will put on the parking brake (manual) or put it in Park (automatic).
 

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Yeah 10th in line did concern me and I told the Dealer that and whilst he didn't (or couldn't) tell me exactly how many allocations they get a month or quarter he was still confident that Q3 build was highly likely - but it IS a concerning factor to me for sure.

This may seem an odd thing to ask, but I have not been able to fully get an understanding from the net, I would need to drive a manual again but if you Guys could advise it would be a help.

With an auto I currently have auto hand brake.
It is a very useful day to day feature.
When the car comes to a stop the handbrake is auto applied - be it at traffic lights, a junction etc.

The last manual I had was 10 years ago and that had an old style manual hand brake 'lever'
The 718 has an electronic park brake so what happens in similar situations with the car being manual gearbox.
Will a firm press of the brake pedal active the brake and hold it till you pull away or do you need to manually activate the park brake if you want to car to be safely stationary without keeping your foot on the brake ?
The 718 has a "Hill Hold" feature in the MT and the PDK. With the clutch pressed in and firm pressure on the brake pedal it will activate hill hold. When you take your foot off of the brake the car stays put until you drive off thus allowing you to work the clutch and the gas at the same time. You won't have to "stage" the clutch so it's partially engaged to keep the vehicle from rolling back.

 

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on order: 718 GTS 4.0
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't think that applying the parking brake at stops is taught or recommended. I have never heard of someone doing that, and I have been driving for over 50 years. I have also never heard of a car doing what you are describing.

Is there some reason that you can't leave your foot on the brake pedal while the car is running? The only time that I take my foot off the brake pedal while stopped is if I am waiting, and I will put on the parking brake (manual) or put it in Park (automatic).
it's possibly just a (lazy) habit that has developed from having an auto for the last 10 years.
The car auto applies the brake as soon as the car comes to a stop - so yeah you can literally just hit the gas when you are ready to go again and the brake auto disengages.
 

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2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6-speed
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Yeah 10th in line did concern me and I told the Dealer that and whilst he didn't (or couldn't) tell me exactly how many allocations they get a month or quarter he was still confident that Q3 build was highly likely - but it IS a concerning factor to me for sure.

This may seem an odd thing to ask, but I have not been able to fully get an understanding from the net, I would need to drive a manual again but if you Guys could advise it would be a help.

With an auto I currently have auto hand brake.
It is a very useful day to day feature.
When the car comes to a stop the handbrake is auto applied - be it at traffic lights, a junction etc.

The last manual I had was 10 years ago and that had an old style manual hand brake 'lever'
The 718 has an electronic park brake so what happens in similar situations with the car being manual gearbox.
Will a firm press of the brake pedal active the brake and hold it till you pull away or do you need to manually activate the park brake if you want to car to be safely stationary without keeping your foot on the brake ?
The 718 manual has a "hill hold" function that if you come to a stop and on a hill with the clutch depressed, when you lift off the brake pedal the electronic brake keeps you from drifting backwards unintentionally. The brake releases automatically when you let the clutch out and give the car gas to go forward.

When I come to a stoplight, I often put the transmission in neutral and let the clutch out (rather than keep it in gear with the clutch depressed), but I never take my right foot off the brake. That's a dangerous practice if you happen to be bumped from behind or just don't realize you are on a slight hill and start drifting.

What you describe with your automatic sounds safe, but have never heard of it on a manual transmission.

P.S. To prove my earlier statement that I am "old school", I miss the emergency hand brake level in the center console of my old 2005 911S, and my previous manual transmissions. That was a nice mechanical feature that didn't need to go electronic, IMO.
 

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on order: 718 GTS 4.0
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The 718 has a "Hill Hold" feature in the MT and the PDK. With the clutch pressed in and firm pressure on the brake pedal it will activate hill hold. When you take your foot off of the brake the car stays put until you drive off thus allowing you to work the clutch and the gas at the same time. You won't have to "stage" the clutch so it's partially engaged to keep the vehicle from rolling back.

Ah that is perfect thank you.
I was searching for something like that but could not locate anything.
Yes that answers my question perfectly (y)
 
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