[mab33]

I hope it's ok to link to another forum here. I thought this thread on Rennlist had some fun info about track options/mods for our cars that members here would find interesting. https://rennlist.com/forums/718-forum/1098253-suncoast-project-car.html

 

[rojo987]

Has anyone checked in on this one? Looks like they were having heat soak issues and added a third radiator. Anyone else done that yet?

 

[Jkapinos]

Has anyone checked in on this one? Looks like they were having heat soak issues and added a third radiator. Anyone else done that yet?

Doesn't the third radiator come with the GTS? And did it solve the problem.

 

[don]

Yes, they said temperatures were down 20-30 deg with the extra center radiator and using water/Royal Purple water wetter combination. I believe this was also running a COBB tune for 93 octane.

 

[JakiChan]

So the 3rd radiator kit is factory, but do you have it "uncovered", or is it behind that black plastic piece that's in the center slot? I'm confused.

 

[ZuffenHouseRules]

Has anyone checked in on this one? Looks like they were having heat soak issues and added a third radiator. Anyone else done that yet?

The third radiator (all 3 of the front radiators) are part of the primary engine cooling system -- what Porsche on the 718 now calls the 'high-temperature cooling system'. A separate, dedicated secondary system -- the 'low-temperature cooling system -- exists exclusively to feed the new-for-718 air-to-water intercooler (Porsche calls it the ICAC Indirect Charge-Air Cooler). The two cooling systems are connected only through sharing a common coolant reservoir.

Since heat-soak is a phenomenon of air-to-water intercoolers, I don't think a third front radiator (for the high-temp system) is the answer. Rather, larger/more-efficient side-intake ducting and radiators (part of the low-temp cooling circuit) would help.

on diagram of low-temp coolant system:
1 -- ICAC (intercooler) sits above engine, next to air-cleaner housing
2,3 --left and right low-temp heat exchanger (radiator) with electric fan and air ducted from side intake
4 -- dedicated on-demand low-temp electric coolant pump
6 -- coolant expansion tank

 

[don]

Maybe the GT4 side scoops to create a ram effect would also help.

So the 3rd radiator kit is factory, but do you have it "uncovered", or is it behind that black plastic piece that's in the center slot? I'm confused.

Only factory in the 718 GTS or in the sports design package in the S.

If you still have the black plastic center cover then you don't have the third radiator like most 718s.

You can buy the extra radiator and piping from Suncoast.

 

[JakiChan]

Maybe the GT4 side scoops to create a ram effect would also help.


Only factory in the 718 GTS or in the sports design package in the S.

If you still have the black plastic center cover then you don't have the third radiator like most 718s.

You can buy the extra radiator and piping from Suncoast.

Yeah, that's not quite my question.

If I buy this kit and install it on my CS am I intended to just have the radiator exposed? It seems there's a bit of plastic trim with the kit that goes in that spot, but I haven't seen any pictures of this track car with that option installed.

 

[splinter]

...I haven't seen any pictures of this track car with that option installed.

photo credit Suncoast Porsche

 

[[email protected]]

There are at 2 issues here; the 3rd center radiator is for engine cooling while the charge air system has separate heat exchangers. If you want to properly cool the engine on the track upgrade to the 3rd radiator. If you want to improve the capacity of the charge air cooling system you'll need to upgrade those too. Any charge air cooler, be it air to water or air to air is subject to heat soak and will at some power level require upgrading.

 

[nineball]

or you can just move to ohio i've done lots of track weekends in oh and pa and never had a heat issue. i've even done a weekend at daytona without a problem, but that was in december so it doesn't count, but it counts.


i've done quite a few of the things they have done but since this isn't my track-only car yet i still need to do the seats, harness and bar. this car is amazing on the track and i highly suggest everyone try it at least once during your ownership.

 

[JakiChan]

photo credit Suncoast Porsche

I didn't think that was their car. But that gets back to my question:

1. Does that piece of plastic come with the kit? Looks like it does.
2. In that picture it looks like the radiator is just taking the wind in the face. Doesn't look super clean.

 

[splinter]

I didn't think that was their car.

Several astute observers noticed the car depicted is emblazoned with "SunCoastParts.com" so perhaps it is reasonable to conclude there might be some affiliation...with the so-called third radiator, the "Suncoast Project 718 track car" and Suncoast parts.


$.02

 

[zagaone]

The third radiator (all 3 of the front radiators) are part of the primary engine cooling system -- what Porsche on the 718 now calls the 'high-temperature cooling system'. A separate, dedicated secondary system -- the 'low-temperature cooling system -- exists exclusively to feed the new-for-718 air-to-water intercooler (Porsche calls it the ICAC Indirect Charge-Air Cooler). The two cooling systems are connected only through sharing a common coolant reservoir.

Since heat-soak is a phenomenon of air-to-water intercoolers, I don't think a third front radiator (for the high-temp system) is the answer. Rather, larger/more-efficient side-intake ducting and radiators (part of the low-temp cooling circuit) would help.

on diagram of low-temp coolant system:
1 -- ICAC (intercooler) sits above engine, next to air-cleaner housing
2,3 --left and right low-temp heat exchanger (radiator) with electric fan and air ducted from side intake
4 -- dedicated on-demand low-temp electric coolant pump
6 -- coolant expansion tank

It could be great if some radiator manufacturer like CSF could build more efficient radiators for this low-temp system that could reduce/eliminate air/water intercooler heat soak. Also being able to control, via software, the way this system’s electric pump works might help to get rid of heat soak. Just wishful thinking. I will contact CSF and ask if they have something in the pipeline. It seems there are up to 5 important radiators in the 718. That is a big business potential for whoever figures out better ones. I know CSF has improved radiators for all previous Cayman/Boxster generations. The side radiators are new, for obvious reasons(turbo).

 

[don]

I posted this on rennlist but FYI here is a bit more info on the 718 cooling system from Christophorus:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/defaul...m-turbo-engines-718-boxster-cayman-12753.html

 

[ZuffenHouseRules]

I posted this on rennlist but FYI here is a bit more info on the 718 cooling system from Christophorus:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/defaul...m-turbo-engines-718-boxster-cayman-12753.html

I found this article, like some other blurbs from Porsche, a bit misleading in making it sound like packaging constraints dictated a sub-optimal liquid intercooling solution for the 718. Not wanting to offend their air-to-air intercooled 911 base might have played a role in this positioning....

I think the truth may be more along these lines: lower cost, weight and complexity have favored air-to-air intercooling historically in the 911 turbo variants, but with the new 718 'clean-sheet' design conditions were right to introduce liquid intercooling because of its superior efficiency in combination with a dedicated secondary cooling system.

According to Garrett (along with Borg-Warner/KKK the historical leader in automotive turbocharging including racing):

Q. What is intercooler effectiveness and how do I measure it?
A. Effectiveness is defined as the ratio of how many degrees of temperature that were removed from the charge air by the intercooler to the original temperature that is put into the charge air by the turbo. Example: If the turbo compresses the charge air to a temperature of 140° F, but after passing through the intercooler the air is 115° cooler (resulting in a 25° F charge air temperature), the efficiency would be: Effectiveness: 115/140 = 0.82 or 82% efficiency Typically, air-to-air intercoolers for normal street applications range between 60% and 70% efficiency. Often, liquid-to-air intercoolers have effectiveness ratings from 75% to 95%.

More efficient intercooling > more charge-air density > more power. If heat-soak can be managed through the cooling system, liquid-chilled intercooling offers more power potential.

 

[Chiraoka]

would be very interested on some extra cooling, can't do any harm ...

 

[ZuffenHouseRules]

Tagging on to this thread as it broached the topic of air-to-water intercooling in the 718 (starting with post #6), which just came up again in the context of key design differences between 9A2B4 and B6.

I'm finding technical detail on the ICAC to be even more elusive than that on VTG, where we finally found the BorgWarner patent filling to help fill-in our understanding. Some questions I didn't even know to ask before (and links to helpful background):

-- is the 718 ICAC a counter-flow design, in contrast to the cross-flow of the 911 air-to-air units?
Automotive Heat Exchangers - Thermal Systems
https://www.cpesystems.com/blogs/news/parallel-vs-counterflow-heat-exchangers-for-non-engineers

-- putting aside questions of heat-soak on the track (and how it might be ameliorated by beefed-up secondary cooling system): does liquid ICAC unit as sized in 718 actually benefit from reduced flow-loss/boost-drop-off/lag versus larger air-to-air unit in 991.2?
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983790

-- what are the respective efficiency ratings of these units?
https://www.garrettmotion.com/boostadviser/faq.php
see "Q. What is intercooler effectiveness and how do I measure it?"

 

[Eboosted]

I just saw this on the Suncoast website I wonder if this updated sensor was tested by you guys:

Updated Turbo Temperature Sensor

Check out the deal on Updated Turbo Temperature Sensor at Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories

www.suncoastparts.com

 

[SHKR_718]

I just saw this on the Suncoast website I wonder if this updated sensor was tested by you guys:

Updated Turbo Temperature Sensor

Check out the deal on Updated Turbo Temperature Sensor at Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories

www.suncoastparts.com

Nineball (R/L user) tested it with no luck. I asked him about it and said there was zero impact.
I’m starting to think the suncoast guys are chasing the wrong symptoms. I noticed the wiring harness changed 10/2018 and a few people have been noting issues with sensors on the air intake side (@718racer). I guess we will keep trying to figure this out.