[17846]

I've owned/Driven over 6 manual cars from FWD, Mid Engine and RWD and the 718 base manual was one of the worst to me.

The shifter was pretty good(a little tall) but good action and position. But the clutch was terrible!! It was unnecessarily stiff and had a crazy hard spring.

The same day I test drove a Miata and then back to my Veloster N. It was just way easier to drive those cars comfortably with a stick.
The release point on the clutch in the 718 was really high up and it would be a nightmare in traffic due to how stiff the clutch pedal was.

My car driving history (all manuals): mr2 Spyder, FRS/BRZ, Miata NA + NB + ND, Fiesta St, Veloster N. I also briefly drove a 981 cayman.
The 981 cayman was also kind of stiff but I don't remember it being that much.



Anybody else feel this way? Do you just get used to it? Is there a mod to make the clutch for livable as a daily?
Other than that I love the car's handling and I don't mind the engine at all.

Tested: 2018 718 Cayman base.

i know we all think a true sportscar should be a manual. why? i'm not sure.
having owned a 718 mit pdk for a couple months, i wouldn't want it any other way. my ferrari was gated and could
be a pain in traffic,etc. considering the level of engineering going into a pdk vs. a ferrari you can understand why
they chose to go clutchless.
no regrets mate.

 

[17846]

i know we all think a true sportscar should be a manual. why? i'm not sure.
having owned a 718 mit pdk for a couple months, i wouldn't want it any other way. my ferrari was gated and could
be a pain in traffic,etc. considering the level of engineering going into a pdk vs. a ferrari you can understand why
they chose to go clutchless.
no regrets mate.

i'm not condeming manuals at all. in my nearly 60yrs. of driving, i have driven mostly sticks as well. my first being
an international tractor. the few slush boxes i had were terrible. a couple were concessions to my late wife.
the bmw, infinities, vw's, and ferrari i had were good. but i'm getting older. my salad days are long past.
my driving school days at the nordschleife, likewise. my point is, nothing stirs me more than a smartly designed
chasis,good brakes, and a flat torque curve! i think the 718 excels at those criteria. clutch foot in or clutch foot out!

 

[ferraris]

Thank you for posting this. I test drove a manual GTS and thought the clutch was high and unusually stiff. I'd assumed, having heard people sing the praises of the manual 718, that it was just me not having driven a manual for a few years, but obviously not.

 

[Traum]

Here is my direct answer to your original question -- for a lot of people, the PDK is not particularly engaging, whereas the manual is more fun because its operation requires a degree of skill, and getting something done that requires skill is often very rewarding.

IIRC, the PDK has a set of much better gear ratios. It shifts faster. Its programming logic is undeniably excellent at lapping / HPDE. If I want to compete at the pointy end of autox or chase lap times in a Cayman, I'd definitely pick a PDK over a 6MT version. But that still doesn't make the PDK necessarily better than the 6MT.

So you enjoy the PDK more than the manual -- good for you! Perhaps you prefer focusing on the driving or race craft when you track your car -- again, good for you! For me, I want to enjoy the driving as well as the shifting, so I picked the 6MT.

And yeah, the 6MT is ~$3k cheaper than the PDK as well. I rather like that LOL~

Strange, but I have not seen a single direct answer to my original question, "Why would you want a manual when you can have a PDK?", only excuses for not embracing modern technology. If you like the nostalgia of old technology that's fine. I personally like the old Hamilton mechanical wind up watches and tube type radios. I even have a '65 E Type, MT and all. I would never argue that any of these are better than the modern day equivalents.

 

[RotorOver]

I was the complete opposite. My son bought a Veloster N awhile back and my first thought on pressing the clutch pedal was, man this think is too light! So, I suppose you could say you get used to the Cayman clutch. I've got an S and presume it's similar if not exactly the same feel. But, I agree, for daily driving in heavy traffic the Veloster N clutch would be much easier to deal with. Otherwise, I've driven my CS for 6-8 hours at a time of mainly spirited driving during touring rallies and never noticed the weight of the clutch.

 

[GTS18BGTS]

I was in bumper to bumper traffic today for over an hour, sometimes moving less than a cars length. I'm 61. No issues with the ride or the use of a clutch other than it was BUMPER TO BUMPER TRAFFIC on Pittsburgh hills! Anyone believing the clutch is too heavy needs some exercise.

 

[KeinPDK]

I’ve driven BMW clutches for 20 years and before that VW clutches. The VW’s golf GTI/jetta GLI were much heavier than the BMWs and my 2017 BXS 6-speed. The BXS clutch engagement point took a little getting used to, but that is true when switching to any new manual.

PDK is the best ‘automatic’ on the market and I prefer the driving engagement of a clutch pedal (pun intended). Let’s be grateful we have the choice - for now.

There are a couple of miscellaneous comments about the shifter height and the gear ratios in this thread for which I’d like to provide some information.

When I got my BXS, I too thought the shifter was about an inch on the high side And I didn’t want to go to a non-Porsche for a solution. Turns out, SunCoast sells the shifter from the Cayman GT4 for ~$250, which is a drop in replacement for the BX and BXS stock shifter. It is about 3/4 of an inch shorter than the stock shifter.

That’s makes the throws shorter to your arm without changing the geometry of the mechanism itself. The only downside is that reverse takes a determined effort, but I think that is a good thing. You won’t hit reverse when trying for 1st. This mod is the single most valuable thing I have done to the car (so far).

The YouTube video showing the part and it’s installation in a 987.2 (which is the same for the 718) is shown here:

I found an interesting website called Automobile-Catalog the Catalog of Cars, Car Specs Database where you can look up technical details of cars, including transmission ratios. As far as I can tell, the transmission ratios of the Boxster S models have been virtually the same for the 987.1, 987.2 and 718 generations. That goes all the way back to 2005. I’ve included a couple of screen shots here. As far as I can see, the 987.2 S models are identical to the 718S. The 987.1 is slightly shorter geared in 1st and 2nd gear.

Just for fun, I also looked up the gear ratios for a 2018 911 Carrera S, 7sp manual.
The 911 is slightly but noticeably shorter geared in 1st and 2nd.

A couple of notes. You have to compare the numbers in parentheses, which take into account the differing final drive ratios. Second, the top speeds in gear are calculations based on the engine at redline in that gear. The cars usually do not have enough horsepower to reach those speeds - see the 911 in 6th and 7th, and the 718S in 6th as an example.

 

[JazzCatGab]

Did the same as @KeinPDK with the short shifter and with the same result. Love it! The gear ratio info is interesting also. Before I learned my shift points on the HPDE track I go to, I was often at 90-95 mph in third gear. I had the dealer's service manager check for over revs and the report he gave me was clean. This data shows why.

 

[Zak]

I've owned/Driven over 6 manual cars from FWD, Mid Engine and RWD and the 718 base manual was one of the worst to me.

The shifter was pretty good(a little tall) but good action and position. But the clutch was terrible!! It was unnecessarily stiff and had a crazy hard spring.

The same day I test drove a Miata and then back to my Veloster N. It was just way easier to drive those cars comfortably with a stick.
The release point on the clutch in the 718 was really high up and it would be a nightmare in traffic due to how stiff the clutch pedal was.

My car driving history (all manuals): mr2 Spyder, FRS/BRZ, Miata NA + NB + ND, Fiesta St, Veloster N. I also briefly drove a 981 cayman.
The 981 cayman was also kind of stiff but I don't remember it being that much.



Anybody else feel this way? Do you just get used to it? Is there a mod to make the clutch for livable as a daily?
Other than that I love the car's handling and I don't mind the engine at all.

Tested: 2018 718 Cayman base.

I love my 718 Cayman 6 speed. No issues with the clutch, it's a joy to drive.

 

[drvrmod]

So I've been questioning myself since I did that test drive. Maybe I was too harsh on it, maybe I would get used to it or I was being overcritical. Then I remembered some Youtubers who review tons of Porsche's and love manuals. My experience was exactly repeated here in the video:

Even so, if I didn't have to daily it in traffic or a lot of lights I probably still go for the manual and hope I get used to it. My FRS also had a little bit of a stiffer clutch.

 

[drvrmod]

Thank you for posting this. I test drove a manual GTS and thought the clutch was high and unusually stiff. I'd assumed, having heard people sing the praises of the manual 718, that it was just me not having driven a manual for a few years, but obviously not.

Thanks for sharing.
Yeah I think some people have just gotten used to the stiff clutch or don't know car with easier clutches. I think the ND miata is a perfect clutch, it has feel but doesn't require you to build up more muscle on your left leg. It was brilliant to drive. Of course I still want a cayman!

 

[drvrmod]

Here is my direct answer to your original question -- for a lot of people, the PDK is not particularly engaging, whereas the manual is more fun because its operation requires a degree of skill, and getting something done that requires skill is often very rewarding.

IIRC, the PDK has a set of much better gear ratios. It shifts faster. Its programming logic is undeniably excellent at lapping / HPDE. If I want to compete at the pointy end of autox or chase lap times in a Cayman, I'd definitely pick a PDK over a 6MT version. But that still doesn't make the PDK necessarily better than the 6MT.

So you enjoy the PDK more than the manual -- good for you! Perhaps you prefer focusing on the driving or race craft when you track your car -- again, good for you! For me, I want to enjoy the driving as well as the shifting, so I picked the 6MT.

And yeah, the 6MT is ~$3k cheaper than the PDK as well. I rather like that LOL~

I briefly owned an Afla Romeo Guilia with an 8 speed. It was really fast on track and easier to use but I did miss the engagement at times. I sold it for a manual Veloster N. What's nice about the Veloster is it has an optional rev-match for intense track days and a light clutch so it's really easy to daily. Still no cayman tho! The biggest issue with the 718 clutch was starting from first. Once you got going it was fine. But driving in slow traffic or light to light would get annoying to me.

I think it's perfectly OK to love Porsches and admit when they could do better. I still lust after them and hope to be an owner in the near future.

 

[yellolab]

Strange, but I have not seen a single direct answer to my original question, "Why would you want a manual when you can have a PDK?", only excuses for not embracing modern technology. If you like the nostalgia of old technology that's fine. I personally like the old Hamilton mechanical wind up watches and tube type radios. I even have a '65 E Type, MT and all. I would never argue that any of these are better than the modern day equivalents.

I think you're missing the point somewhat. Technically, on paper, the PDK wins hands down. Difficult to deny that.
Manuals are just more.....fun.

 

[davchr_1850]

I think you're missing the point somewhat. Technically, on paper, the PDK wins hands down. Difficult to deny that.
Manuals are just more.....fun.

I fully get it. I asked the original question, “why would you want a MT when you can have a PDK” somewhat in jest. No one could directly answer it. I could ask the same thing about riding a horse vs driving a car. I will never understand why someone would accept such a rough, slow, hot, uncomfortable mode of transportation. To each his own.

 

[HooosierDaddy]

I fully get it. I asked the original question, “why would you want a MT when you can have a PDK” somewhat in jest. No one could directly answer it. I could ask the same thing about riding a horse vs driving a car. I will never understand why someone would accept such a rough, slow, hot, uncomfortable mode of transportation. To each his own.

That my friends is the definition of trolling. May not be intentional but nonetheless still true.

 

[Graustark]

I fully get it. I asked the original question, “why would you want a MT when you can have a PDK” somewhat in jest. No one could directly answer it. I could ask the same thing about riding a horse vs driving a car. I will never understand why someone would accept such a rough, slow, hot, uncomfortable mode of transportation. To each his own.

I hope you jest! But then how can you possibly state that no one could directly answer it? Come on man. I did – it's more fun for me. PDK feels, to me, more boring.

Heck, my manual six even rev matches on downshifts. There is so little stress in operating it.

 

[ArchiProf]

Each of the Porsches I have owned have been manual. Before ordering the 982 Cayman my spouse and I drove several Caymans and Boxsters, 6MT and PDK. While the PDK is a fabulous transmission we both enjoyed driving the 6MT cars more.

 

[gfspencer]

I've had two 987s and three 981s. One was PDK and the rest were manual transmissions. I never had a problem with any of them. I have a 718 Cayman T on order. It comes stock with a short throw shifter. I'm not worried about the shifting or the clutch being difficult.

 

[drvrmod]

I've had two 987s and three 981s. One was PDK and the rest were manual transmissions. I never had a problem with any of them. I have a 718 Cayman T on order. It comes stock with a short throw shifter. I'm not worried about the shifting or the clutch being difficult.

Despite my issue with the clutch I'm still leaning to a Cayman T with a Manual. I think the sport plus seats add much needed bolstering and the sport chrono package adds rev match which will help with daily driving. Have fun with the Cayman!

 

[gfspencer]

Despite my issue with the clutch I'm still leaning to a Cayman T with a Manual. I think the sport plus seats add much needed bolstering and the sport chrono package adds rev match which will help with daily driving. Have fun with the Cayman!

I had a 981 with Sport Chrono and the rev match was a very nice edition.