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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I think I solved a minor mystery that’s been bugging me.

[2021 GTS 4.0 MT fyi]

I’ve been wondering why sometimes when I floor it I get that amazing wham into the seat feeling, and sometimes it‘s just good…

When researching here, I found this thread, though I’m not sure Craig66’s question was the same, given his 2.0L base.

After a few experiments today, I think that awesome feeling is not about maximizing acceleration but rather jerk (i.e. change in acceleration). And the way to do that is to go from zero to high acceleration as quickly as possible. This doesn’t happen at launch from standstill because of low RPMs and the need to limit wheel spin. What will do is to be coasting at a speed where the RPMs are at say 5k+ and then floor it. Works great in 1st gear, seems pretty good in 2nd too.

And I’d guess this is way more true for the NA 4.0 than the turbos?

Well maybe this was only a mystery to me, but I’m feeling satisfied :)
 

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I think it is all about boost pressure and for me it is more noticeable after i tuned my 2,5 GTS.
With the tune there is the ability to have up 0,7 bar of boost hold and it is like a totally different car.
Normal pre boost and still pulls nicely but with the higher i get wheel spin in third gear.
Warm tires and it pulls like crazy !
Doing a launch with good traction will glue you to the seat :giggle:

Stock GTS do have a slight amount of pre boost but not much.
Drive in second gear and press hard and let go a little bit before it will shift - wait ~1second then floor it.
You can also press hard up near the shift point, brake a bit then floor it.


I totally missed we are talking about a 4,0
 

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As @johan notes, there is considerable lower-end acceleration with the turbo (particually with a tune) that I don't think you would get with the NA 4.0 where the acceleration happens a little hgher but longer into the RPMs. Those who have driven both would be better informed than I, but that has been my take-away for reading posts here.

Also, when I installed a GoPro, I saw a lot of movement of my body in the seat I wasn't aware of, but it includes being pushed back into the seat during most acceleration events.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It is true that what human butt-o-meters perceive as acceleration is actually change in acceleration (the first derivative of acceleration, I’ve not heard this “jerk” thing… sounds like someone that clutches badly…)
Haha, I swear jerk is the technical term - google it!

Yeah, I think jerk is quite precipitable and dramatic, while acceleration is going to be felt by your force against the seat, which is more subtle in the 1G territory.

For sure not trying to start another turbo vs NA debate…
 

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This thread hit upon exactly why I have had a manual transmission car since 1974. The " ... amazing wham into the seat feeling ...", at least for me, appears to drive a massive dopamine release. A quick downshift while simultaneously applying full throttle is the key. The acts of physically moving the shift lever/clutch pedal, the visual of a car being passed just suddenly whizzing by in my peripheral vision, and the exhaust sound, together appear to be the secret sauce. In other words, for me, manually down shifting an auto transmission with a paddle is lame compared to the same response when downshifting a manual. Sometimes, depending on RPM and speed, I might directly change down two gears. It appears, if I want the " ... amazing wham into the seat feeling ...", I need to be already at high RPM but not so high that there is not sufficient head room for the engine to continue to accelerate.
 

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This thread hit upon exactly why I have had a manual transmission car since 1974. The " ... amazing wham into the seat feeling ...", at least for me, appears to drive a massive dopamine release. A quick downshift while simultaneously applying full throttle is the key. The acts of physically moving the shift lever/clutch pedal, the visual of a car being passed just suddenly whizzing by in my peripheral vision, and the exhaust sound, together appear to be the secret sauce. In other words, for me, manually down shifting an auto transmission with a paddle is lame compared to the same response when downshifting a manual. Sometimes, depending on RPM and speed, I might directly change down two gears. It appears, if I want the " ... amazing wham into the seat feeling ...", I needs to already be at high RPM but not so high that there is not sufficient head room for the engine to continue to accelerate.
As I get used to this car, I’m nailing the downshifts really quickly and smoothly now and yes, little injections of dopamine every time. This is a great car with the manual, IMO.
 

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Assuming you're not talking about dumping the clutch, with either transmission if you're in a gear that is holding the engine near or just in the powerband, and nail it, you will definitely "get the sensation". Say you're on a back road in second gear, running about 45 or so under mild throttle, and nail wide open throttle (say, when exiting a turn, or even just on an open stretch), you'll feel the full torque instantly and she will wail. If you did the same thing in third (at 45 mph), your RPM is too far below the peak power to get that feeling, but the car will still pull fairly hard on the way to peak power.

Put another way, with this NA 4.0 engine, if you want to feel the power and hear the noise you want to live around 3800 RPM and up... 2500 RPM is for cruising
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The " ... amazing wham into the seat feeling ...", at least for me, appears to drive a massive dopamine release. A quick downshift while simultaneously applying full throttle is the key. The acts of physically moving the shift lever/clutch pedal, the visual of a car being passed just suddenly whizzing by in my peripheral vision, and the exhaust sound, together appear to be the secret sauce.
Yep, that dopamine release is it! I think you are right that it’s all about the action and the response - very much a perceptual experience, not just a technical sequence to get an objective performance.

I need to be already at high RPM but not so high that there is not sufficient head room for the engine to continue to accelerate.
Makes sense.
 

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I have a light weight WRX with a large turbo running 30psi of boost and 500hp (manual transmission). It goes from no boost to full boost from 3500-4000RPM and the torque/power increases rapidly. It feels so much quicker than my 420hp tuned 718S. It is quicker of course also... but not as much as it feels.
 

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Ok, I think I solved a minor mystery that’s been bugging me.

[2021 GTS 4.0 MT fyi]

I’ve been wondering why sometimes when I floor it I get that amazing wham into the seat feeling, and sometimes it‘s just good…

When researching here, I found this thread, though I’m not sure Craig66’s question was the same, given his 2.0L base.

After a few experiments today, I think that awesome feeling is not about maximizing acceleration but rather jerk (i.e. change in acceleration). And the way to do that is to go from zero to high acceleration as quickly as possible. This doesn’t happen at launch from standstill because of low RPMs and the need to limit wheel spin. What will do is to be coasting at a speed where the RPMs are at say 5k+ and then floor it. Works great in 1st gear, seems pretty good in 2nd too.

And I’d guess this is way more true for the NA 4.0 than the turbos?

Well maybe this was only a mystery to me, but I’m feeling satisfied :)
Isn’t what you are describing here, torque?
This is what I always associated with torque.

Am I wrong?
 

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Me thinks this thread is the quickest ever to hit on every controversial subject within our 718 group.

These are "fighting words"!!! Reminds me of a Mike Tyson boxing match 😉. 0-100 in two punches.
 

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Me thinks this thread is the quickest ever to hit on every controversial subject within our 718 group.

These are "fighting words"!!! Reminds me of a Mike Tyson boxing match 😉. 0-100 in two punches.
Who doesn’t love chewing on someone’s ear!?!
 
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