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2020 Boxster 718 S, Chalk, "Bella Beast"
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The premise that an owner can't be a car enthusiast if they don't drive a manual sure is tiring and common across threads and forums these days.

This discussion is much like this erroneous deduction:
  • Apples are red. [manual transmission]
  • Apples are fruit. [car enthusiast]
  • Ie, if it isn't red, it isn't fruit. [if it isn't manual, you don't get joy and you can't be a car enthusiast]
:rolleyes:
 

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Its just odd to me that, assuming you are a car enthusiast (you have a 718 and joined an online forum so you must have some level of enthusiasm towards driving), that you cant even fathom why anyone would want to row their own gears.
I'm quite happy for you to choose whatever car, transmission, food, drink, stereo, ... you want. No issue at all. 馃榾

I've been a car and motorcycle nut since I was 16 years old (almost 56 years ago) and rode and drove manuals all that time. After 56 years of it, the whole process of shifting was so well known that I didn't derive any special charge from it although I did like the control aspect.

When my left knee gave out I had to give up the bike since the knee would collapse randomly. I also gave up power boat racing because the competitive aspect didn't thrill me any more.

I decided on the PDK because: the knee; and because I wanted to have an engaging daily driver for town and city, and be able to concentrate on braking, steering, and other skills to stay safe and enjoy myself while driving in a spirited manner.

I'm out for fun drives multiple times each week.
 

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After 56 years the whole process of shifting was so well known that I didn't derive any special charge from it although I did like the control aspect.
Holy crap, I had a dream about this d*** discussion, and @GregW, you pretty much summed up what I woke up thinking this AM, except my manual life has only been about 40 years.

I even dreamt we did a survey (out of morbid curiosity) to see what folks in a very specific sports car group like this really felt (basically, know how to drive a manual but wanted a pdk, knew and got a manual, don't know how to drive a manual). I have to stop reading this stuff before bed :)
 

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I'm quite happy for you to choose whatever car, transmission, food, drink, stereo, ... you want. No issue at all. 馃榾

I've been a car and motorcycle nut since I was 16 years old (almost 56 years ago) and rode and drove manuals all that time. After 56 years of it, the whole process of shifting was so well known that I didn't derive any special charge from it although I did like the control aspect.

When my left knee gave out I had to give up the bike since the knee would collapse randomly. I also gave up power boat racing because the competitive aspect didn't thrill me any more.

I decided on the PDK because: the knee; and because I wanted to have an engaging daily driver for town and city, and be able to concentrate on braking, steering, and other skills to stay safe and enjoy myself while driving in a spirited manner.

I'm out for fun drives multiple times each week.
I think you misunderstood the intent of my post. I am in no way knocking the PDK nor saying anyone is any less of a man or enthusiast by choosing to purchase a PDK equipped car. I was responding directly to a poster who likened a manual transmission to some archaic form or driving torture and who couldnt fathom why anyone would ever want to shift their own gears.
 

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The premise that an owner can't be a car enthusiast if they don't drive a manual sure is tiring and common across threads and forums these days.
First an important distinction in terms. The term manual transmission for years clearly meant a transmission where the driver, through the use of a clutch pedal and shift lever, was required to manually select and engage the needed gear. Absolutely nothing occurred automatically, the driver did it all; ergo "manual". In the late 30s & 40s manufacturers developed truly automatic transmissions using different technologies for the gear train (planetary gears) and the foot/pedal operated clutch (torque converters). These were truly automatic because the drivers only action was to move the lever to "D" after starting the car. Because of the mechanical characteristics of the torque converter, the automatic transmissions could not begin to compete with manual transmission in terms of performance (as I clearly remember from Dad's 1951/1956/1960) Buick Dynaflows. I also want to say the words "manual" and "automatic" do not describe the technology used, they just describes the user interface as various technologies can be used to accomplish the same mechanical result.

Then, circa 1996, BMW introduced the SMG. This used a gear box incorporating conventional gear trains and did not use planetary gears. A computer operated a real pedal-less clutch (no clutch pedal). The transmission lever no longer was used to shift gears but only to tell the computer what mode the driver wanted. The technology used a computer to make and fully execute shifting decisions better than most all humans and was able to operate the clutch with precision, speed, and smoothness that very few humans could match. The PDK is just an outstanding well developed example of this same basic technology.

Now my point. If a car is advertised as having manual transmission, it comes with a clutch pedal and a lever for selecting the desired gear. Since it cannot possibly shift itself, it is a manual transmission. A PDK does indeed use two parallel conventional gear trains and has a clutch, albeit without a pedal, but it functions fully automatically as it does make all shifting decisions itself and virtually everything it does comes from a computer. There is no clutch and there is no provision for manually taking over that function. There is a mode lever but there is no gear shift, only paddles that tell the computer what to do. Yes, one can up shift and downshift using the paddles but it is a very long stretch in my mind to call that manual shifting.

If the best possible performance is your thing, then there are very few, if any, humans that can do better than a PDK. It also appears an overwhelmingly majority of buyers want a PDK. As I stated in other threads, excellent adrenaline stimulating performance is important to me but so are other things like being engaged with the machinery. I have a BMW SUV with that horrible criminally over engineered 8 speed automatic POS. In that car an automatic is appropriate for me as that car is used as a luxury truck and family needs vehicle. My Boxster is my daily driver and its sole purpose in life, in addition to transportation, is to put a smile on my face and provide some really neat machinery to play with, listen to, and look at. I like shifting gears and that has mostly nothing to do with performance.

So, I know I cannot change the world but I immediately dislike a car salesman that shows me a PDK when I state I want to see a manual. If I were King, I would mandate a PDK must be referred to as an automatic transmission because it is indeed designed to operate automatically. I can think of no other example where a device or system that is designed to operate fully automatically but has a pseudo manual override is referred to as being a manual system. Why do we do that with the PDK? It is an automatic transmission that has a semi manual mode using the paddles.
 

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I think you misunderstood the intent of my post. I am in no way knocking the PDK nor saying anyone is any less of a man or enthusiast by choosing to purchase a PDK equipped car. I was responding directly to a poster who likened a manual transmission to some archaic form or driving torture (TRUE) and who couldnt fathom why anyone would ever want to shift their own gears (NOT true - I don't want to shift my own gears in a car I drive every day. If you like doing that, fine.)
 

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The premise that an owner can't be a car enthusiast if they don't drive a manual sure is tiring and common across threads and forums these days.

This discussion is much like this erroneous deduction:
  • Apples are red. [manual transmission]
  • Apples are fruit. [car enthusiast]
  • Ie, if it isn't red, it isn't fruit. [if it isn't manual, you don't get joy and you can't be a car enthusiast]
:rolleyes:
I think people go to extremes in both directions. I'm a car enthusiast. I own and will continue to own dual-clutch transmissions. They are awesome. Not just PDK, a lot of the others are awesome also. And even the ZF 8-speed that people use that has a torque converter, even that one is a very good transmission for very high torque applications.

But it's also silly to say that there is no additional pleasure in driving a manual (at least for people who are good at it). It is not like a manual window crank, that's absurd. My solution is to own and enjoy both. If I could only have one car, then I would go manual. In fact I didn't even buy my first automatic until I had the space/money to have two cars.

Does that mean I feel manual is superior to PDK? No, it doesn't. I can appreciate the pros/cons of both.
 

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it's also silly to say there is no additional pleasure in driving a manual (at least for people who are good at it)
I am not good at it even after 47 years of continuously owning a car with a manual but I still certainly enjoy it. I only recently learned to shift with some marginal level of smoothness because my GF complained I did not shift smoothly and that required a lot of effort (at the probable expense of being the first clutch I will eventually need to replace).
 

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But it's also silly to say that there is no additional pleasure in driving a manual (at least for people who are good at it).
You sound like my wife telling me what I like and don't like.
I am good with a manual transmission. I learned how to drive with a manual transmission and took my first driver test with one - more than 50 years ago. My first two cars had manual transmissions. I have had about 20 cars and motorcycles with manual transmissions. I still have a '65 E Type with a manual transmission. I find no additional pleasure driving a manual. You, and others obviously do as well. That is fine.
 
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Here's an interesting data point. I thought the PDK had closer gearing, but if these ratios are to be believed (I got them from a thread somewhere in here), and my nerd calculator is correct, the speed spread between the 2 transmissions is negligible.

The blue .71 is from a tech article about the PDK in the 4 litre cars

The most important takeaway here is that we should in theory be able to do 50 MPH in reverse! "Now hold my beer and watch this...."

Font Rectangle Parallel Pattern Number
 

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If the car had low gearing, the PDK wouldnt be that much of a debate, just a personal preference. only reason that thing is in debates is due to the insanely tall 1st and 2nd gear of the manual transmission. Porsche people really just want the car to be realistically downshift-able to 1st racing around in a MT apparently.
 
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