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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am running Michelin Sport 4S tires on the racetrack and for everyday driving. They work very well in both environments, however they ARE a compromise solution. Michelin Cup2s are far superior on track but dangerous in wet, and the soft compound wears very quickly. As for Sport 4Ss, Michelin recommends against them for track use due to "excessive corner tread wear." I have been willing to make this sacrifice ; ) because they are the stickiest Summer Performance driving tires I have found for the track. I have to replace them every five days of HPDE track use (with everyday driving on top of the track use - so about every three months. Be advised that you are STRONGLY recommended not to use Sport 4S tires duriing the winter as cold temperatures (around 42 degrees if I remember correctly) will turn these sticky tires into hard rubber.

If I were rich, I would have a set of Cup2s mounted on a spare set of race rims so that I could switch between the two Michelin tires. Alas, I am, not. I should also say I have run Pirelli PZeros and found them to be a little less grippy and a little less predictable than Michelin

So my questions are, what do you think is the best everyday and track tire you have found? Do you think I should just buck up and get the rims and the Cup2s? That is a lot of money for me.

Thanks to DriveInHouston for his expert advise on this matter.

I live on the coast in CA and I have never been on these tires below 42 degrees.
 

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I can't answer your question because I don't track my car. However, I'd like to point out that MPS4S N0 (or non N0s) are categorized as Summer Extreme Performance Tires.

Not 3 Season and definitely not All Season tires. We don't need to mislead anyone about MSPS4S. They harden up like hockey pucks below 42F and could suffer sidewall damage at unspecified temperatures below 35F. Not fit for winter driving.

Please spare us the stories, 'I drove them in the snow, in Alaska, while hunting polar bears, with my bare hands'... Most of us have driven them below 42F (7C) and we know what they are like.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I can't answer your question because I don't track my car. However, I'd like to point out that MPS4S N0 (or non N0s) are categorized as Summer Extreme Performance Tires.

Not 3 Season and definitely not All Season tires. We don't need to mislead anyone about MSPS4S. They harden up like hockey pucks below 42F and could suffer sidewall damage at unspecified temperatures below 35F. Not fit for winter driving.

Please spare us the stories, 'I drove them in the snow, in Alaska, while hunting polar bears, with my bare hands'... Most of us have driven them below 42F (7C) and we know what they are like.
Thanks for your correction! No, I have not seen any polar bears at the beaches here. Smoke yes, bears no.
 

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Great topic. I've seen PS4S tires ripped apart at the track. I realize many say they are fine for the track, but if you are truly pushing your 718 to the limit you should really get a separate set of wheels and tires. For track purposes, I'm running Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R tires on 19" O.Z. Ultralegera wheels. Great tire, but they are very soft and wear out much more quickly than I would like. I recently tried to switch to Hankook Ventus RS-4, but found out they only produce the front tire size one time a year, which seems crazy to me. Apparently the tire is only available sometime around April/May and they sell out fairly quickly, at least according to TireRack. The Cup 2s are so much more expensive than the RE-71Rs. I hear the Cup 2s really need to get hot before they start to perform as advertised.
 

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The Michelin PS4S are the best overall for both track/street IMO.

Even if they are considered a compromise I still think they are extremely fast on track. You do need to make sure you don't understeer in the turns or you will rip apart the edges. But that is really just driving style. I get about 10-12 track days out of a set of them with my 718CS. This is running at average white group PCA speeds.
 

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Michelin released the N1 Cup 2 in GT4 size a while back with improved wet weather tolerance. I run these tires on my GTS and have used them in wet and cold weather. They are no where near as good as PS4Ss in the wet but I would not say they are dangerous and I think this is why Porsche is happy to put them on their GT cars. You just need to take a little more care and not go throwing your car around and they are not dangerous like semi slicks . Standing water can be more of an issue but that is similar for PS4Ss. I have some wet footage driving in a Tarmac Rally if you want to see the wet weather grip.

IMO if you have more dry days than less and maybe don't use your car as a daily then I'd consider the Cup 2s as they are much better in the dry. However expect maybe 5000 to 6000 kms at a stretch particularly on the rear.
 

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Not 3 Season and definitely not All Season tires. We don't need to mislead anyone about MSPS4S. They harden up like hockey pucks below 42F and could suffer sidewall damage at unspecified temperatures below 35F.
I drove my PS4S a few times through my first winter of Cayman ownership. I generally do not drive hard. I can attest that on any sort of snow or ice surface they are NOT good. I fishtailed the car once, scare the bejesus out of me. That's what made me decied to buy a second set of wheels with winter tires, Michelin Alpin. What a huge difference in cold or snowy weather.
 

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....I have to replace them every five days ...If I were rich, I would have a set of Cup2s mounted on a spare set of race rims...
I'm not familiar with all the subtleties of track days... but it seems to me that you might be spending more money by not getting a set of rims for your track tires. I just had a new 20-inch rear tire replaced, PZero, and the cost was $320 for a single tire. And I just bought a set of Cayman OEM 19-inch rims on the PCA marketplace for $1000 shipped. My intention is to use the 19-inch rims for winter tires here in Colorado. But my point is that serviceable rims having the correct widths and offsets are available for reasonable prices. And I think you might find that the savings from not buying new street tires every five track days would quickly exceed the cost of buying some used rims. It depends on how many miles you drive on the street, and how many track days the Cup2s might last if not driven on the street also.

And of course, this doesn't account for how you get to the track -- if you need to buy and store a trailer to haul the car or the tires, then those costs also come into play. Hope it works out for you.

cap
 

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I also have only good to say about Hankook Ventus RS4.
But i have not used them on 718 but 3 sets have been used on my 986.

If i where to get a set of 18"-19" rims for the 718 i would start with a bit cheaper R tires like Toyo, Nankang or Yokohama.
Get some heat in them and your good to go but stay out of the rain!
 

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If you're going to be doing track days often, it will be cheaper in the long run to have a separate set of track wheels and tires. Particularly as you increase your skill and speed, you're going to destroy those poor PS4S tires.

If you're not tied to the N-rated track tires (aka Cup2), there are several options, but maybe not necessarily in exact OEM sizes.

I am currently running Hankook RS-4 in 255/35ZR18 and 285/35ZR18 sizes, on OZ Alleggerita HLT wheels. The overall diameter of these sizes is a fair bit smaller than OEM, so the car sits even lower, but it also effectively reduces my gearing ratio, so I get faster acceleration. For reference, I have a Cayman GTS, with SPASM, and negative camber is maxed out on OEM components, at around -2º in the front

Another common size people do is 245/40R18 and 275/40R18. Last time I checked, the RS-4 is available in that size as well, as are the Nitto NT01, and the Bridgestone RE-71R

P.S. If you haven't already, you're also going to want to get a performance alignment to help preserve whatever tires you use
 

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Well @phroenips just said everything I was going to say! You're going to find it less expensive to have a dedicated set of track wheels and tires, especially if you drop down to 18" tire size. Also, get your track tires heat cycled by Tire Rack, as that'll prevent them from hardening early.

Tire supply is pretty hit-or-miss right now because of plant shutdowns. I can't get rear Cup 2s for Corvettes and my suppliers are telling me we won't see any in the States until Spring at the earliest.

Get a track alignment! It'll make your track tires last much longer and won't affect your street tires that much.

You can look for used wheels, or good flow formed / forged wheels like from APEX, Titan, and the OZs. I'm running RE-71Rs on 18" APEX wheels and have been very happy with them. They've handled a dozen autocrosses, three HOT track days at Thunderhill, and a nice day at Laguna Seca, and they still easily have a couple of tracks days left of them.

Note that my track wheels will likely be for sale near the end of the year--sadly 18" wheels won't fit over the 15" steel rotors on a GT4.
 

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I agree with all above, get the extra wheels. If anything your PS4S's will last longer and you won't be compromised driving around with minimal tread on the street waiting for the perfect time to switch. The only real extra cost is the wheels but if your buying 4 sets of rubber a year it's in the realm of affordability. You can get the OZ's new for around $2k, and it spreads your rubber costs out over longer time frames so it's probably a wash over a 2-3 year time frame with added benefits. Only consideration is where to store your spares.

If your interested my 19's will be up for sale at used prices come the end of the year, they won't fit over the incoming PCCB's :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not familiar with all the subtleties of track days... but it seems to me that you might be spending more money by not getting a set of rims for your track tires. I just had a new 20-inch rear tire replaced, PZero, and the cost was $320 for a single tire. And I just bought a set of Cayman OEM 19-inch rims on the PCA marketplace for $1000 shipped. My intention is to use the 19-inch rims for winter tires here in Colorado. But my point is that serviceable rims having the correct widths and offsets are available for reasonable prices. And I think you might find that the savings from not buying new street tires every five track days would quickly exceed the cost of buying some used rims. It depends on how many miles you drive on the street, and how many track days the Cup2s might last if not driven on the street also.

And of course, this doesn't account for how you get to the track -- if you need to buy and store a trailer to haul the car or the tires, then those costs also come into play. Hope it works out for you.

cap
Thanks. As my driving has improved I have found that I am not getting perhaps 8 days on the track plus everyday drving. Smooth is fast, but is also cheaper!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks. I am seriously considering getting 19" rims and tires for the track. I will continue to roll the 20s around town - just like the way they look.

As my driving has improved I have found that I am now getting 8+ days on the track even with everyday driving (less than a 80 miles per week). Smoother is faster AND cheaper.
 

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Everyone is correct that a spare set of tires and wheels is ideal. However, another option if you just want to run 1 set of wheels/tires is Bridgestone S007A. They slot in between the MP4S and RE71R in terms of treadwear. Definitely a compromise as they aren't as good as either at street or track, but have better life and hold up pretty well on track.

Edit: I didn't realize you were on 20's and not sure about sizing for S007A, I ran 19"s on my stock rims till I bought a spare set of OZ.
 
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