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Fuel costs will fall sharply long before you get rid of the car. Using current prices to calculate a breakeven point on this is going to really warp your math.
Keep in mind that fuel prices have always been way-way-way higher in the EU.
Our current price is well over 10 USD/gallon. But for the past 5 years it has been around 8 USD/gallon.
 

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Yes the math of converting both Euro to USD and liters to gallons was always too much for me to even bother with when traveling Europe so I would always just hope for the best lol. The baseline price for fuel is higher in Europe but the prices will fall there just the same as elsewhere and they will fall dramatically. Oil is one of the most inherently cyclical commodities that exists. one of the main reasons the prices are so outlandish right now is because we had astronomical low oil prices for too long a period and the low profit margins cause oil producers to dial down significantly causing reduced supply and rising prices... Until the prices get this high and the incentive works in the exact opposite direction. We are at $6 or so for higher end fuels right now and it will be down to $3 or $3.50 once the yo yo ball catches up.
 

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I’ve had my MINI Cooper SE for 7 months. With over 7k on it I did the math on the energy cost. It comes to $19 for every 1,000 miles. I do charge exclusively at home taking advantage of the low over night rates. This falls in line with the i3 I had for three years. Not only do I avoid going to the gas station I save a ton on fuel and I like knowing the energy used is from the US. Add to that the first service isn”t until November 2023 and consists of a cabin filter and brake fluid change. Just like the gas station I like not seeing the dealer service depatrment.
 

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I’ve had my MINI Cooper SE for 7 months. With over 7k on it I did the math on the energy cost. It comes to $19 for every 1,000 miles. I do charge exclusively at home taking advantage of the low over night rates. This falls in line with the i3 I had for three years. Not only do I avoid going to the gas station I save a ton on fuel and I like knowing the energy used is from the US. Add to that the first service isn”t until November 2023 and consists of a cabin filter and brake fluid change. Just like the gas station I like not seeing the dealer service depatrment.
yeah never going to the gas station is appealing... haha
 

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I'm never going back to an ICE for a daily driver. Let me try to convince you ;)

My first one was a second gen Nissan Leaf with the 62kWh battery. I got it in the coldest month of winter and I hated every kilometer in that car. The advertised range was 385km. The dealer said it would do at least 250km in all conditions. I had a 120km total commute per day, 3 days a week. On really cold days it didn't even manage that. If I turned off the heater, I would only just make it back home. Not much fun in -10C conditions... What was even worse was the charging time. I would get home around 18.00 in the evening. Plug in the car straight away. And it wasn't even back at 100% the next morning at 8.00. Meaning I could not even drive to work 2 days in a row! What a dreadful car... They sold in massive numbers so I blame the general negative attitude towards EV's on the bloody Leaf!

As soon as the Tesla Model 3 became available in Europe, I tried to get one and succeeded. It was a completely different experience. It actually exceeded its advertised range of 400km for me. On a slow (11kw) public or home charger it charged in 4 hours from 20 to 100%. I was able to make the same commute almost 4 times on one charge while the battery was a little 'smaller' than the Leaf. We took it on our first long trip on family vacation to the south of France. We had to drive 1200km in one day. I must admit that I was nervous as **** that first time. Well it turned out to be the most relaxing long drive I've ever made. Charging 4 times during the day at Tesla's superchargers. They all worked and it only took 1.5 hours longer than if we would have used an ICE car. We usually arrive completely beat and ready for bed after a 1200km ICE car trip. This time, we went out for dinner and drinks after arriving. Quiet driving and auto-pilot do wonders on a long drive.

The Model 3 was a company lease and when that ran out I looked at the options:
  • Audi e-tron: too big and inefficient.
  • VW ID4: expensive yet the materials felt so cheap, the HUD made me literally sick and it was slow.
  • Taycan: too expensive.
  • EV6: best all-round EV but it has no soul.
  • Polestar 2: little inefficient but very practical and gorgeous design (my opinion of course).

Instead of a lease I went for a straight up private purchase of the Polestar with all options ticked.
So far it has been great. No issues and you don't see them on every street corner, like you see the Model 3.
I charge it home. In spring and summer mostly through excess solar energy.

EV negatives:
  • Charging times
  • Purchase price
  • Weight

EV positives:
  • Charging times ;) (it forces you to take a few 20 minute breaks on very long trips).
  • Very low maintenance costs (only tires, brakes don't get used a lot and will probably out live the car itself).
  • Very cheap to run.
  • Bloody fast in a straight line.
  • Always a full tank in the morning.
  • Very relaxing to drive.
Nice try and great piece Erik and thanks, but no thanks 😎
 

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Do you know if there's a difference in suspension between de performance and the normal dual motor version?
I always thought my Model 3 handled subpar. Not bad, but not as it should be. It felt really nervous over small bumps.
And I felt like they give it ultra fast steering to hide the fact that it doesn't handle very well.
the Model 3 can range from 3,700 - 4,300 # and they're not sports / performance cars - probably to make the steering feel "easier" it utilizes a quicker ratio.

But high speed stability, even in Model S Plaid has been noted in reviews - don't feel good
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
there is no way a flying-turd EV will be less expensive in the short or long run compared to a MX-5 ND2. They have terrible range. The MX-5 ND2 i own, an RF, gets 38 MPG driving fast, average trip gas use. Hits 40-41 at 65. The EV will die a horrible death early and get no range vs 380 miles of an MX-5. The MX-5 is built IMMENSELY better and should last 220k miles without much issues. The EV will have two batteries replaced for many thousands of dollars. I guess it depends on how expensive gasoline is near you. Still wouldnt bother
Well you certainly have a point here. In the end, doing nothing and not buying a car is always cheaper, at least in the mid-term. However, I'm a little tired of the noisy little cabin of the MX5 which I only use for motorway commutes. I feel like a more comfortable silent car would allow me to get to my workplace fresher.

Fuel costs will fall sharply long before you get rid of the car. Using current prices to calculate a breakeven point on this is going to really warp your math.
I'm not that sure this can be applied to the EU. Maybe it will be true for the US, where you obtain your own oil, but here we always need to buy oil from somebody else, and this somebody will always try to sell it as expensive as possible.
Something that worries me even more than that is that I feel like our European politicians in my opinion may be quite pleased with the current situation (don't wanna start any sort of political argument here). These last few months/years I've ended up with the feeling they are obsessed about driving out all ICE cars from our roads, so they are constantly looking for excuses in order to achieve their objective. Fuel being scarce and expensive is a great pretext in order to push us into getting EVs or, even better, using public transportation instead of private cars. Most towns and cities are in fact banning ICE cars from their streets, and things are getting worse every single day. My gut tells me the EU has declared war against private vehicles, especially ICE ones, so I fear they will keep fuel prices as high as possible even after the russian conflict ends.
 

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I'm not that sure this can be applied to the EU. Maybe it will be true for the US, where you obtain your own oil, but here we always need to buy oil from somebody else, and this somebody will always try to sell it as expensive as possible.
The market will move in the E.U. in the same general way that it does everywhere else as it always has because oil is oil is oil. 10 million barrels of oil sold here vs 10 million barrels of oil sold there makes no difference at a macro view- the outcome is the global supply of oil is 10 million barrels less than it was before. It is a very global market.
 

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Well you certainly have a point here. In the end, doing nothing and not buying a car is always cheaper, at least in the mid-term. However, I'm a little tired of the noisy little cabin of the MX5 which I only use for motorway commutes. I feel like a more comfortable silent car would allow me to get to my workplace fresher.


I'm not that sure this can be applied to the EU. Maybe it will be true for the US, where you obtain your own oil, but here we always need to buy oil from somebody else, and this somebody will always try to sell it as expensive as possible.
Something that worries me even more than that is that I feel like our European politicians in my opinion may be quite pleased with the current situation (don't wanna start any sort of political argument here). These last few months/years I've ended up with the feeling they are obsessed about driving out all ICE cars from our roads, so they are constantly looking for excuses in order to achieve their objective. Fuel being scarce and expensive is a great pretext in order to push us into getting EVs or, even better, using public transportation instead of private cars. Most towns and cities are in fact banning ICE cars from their streets, and things are getting worse every single day. My gut tells me the EU has declared war against private vehicles, especially ICE ones, so I fear they will keep fuel prices as high as possible even after the russian conflict ends.
I really love being a USA Citizen.

Globalism is a poison that the EU is forcing its Citizens to swallow. Privacy is outlawed, and to ensure that, one needs all of the weapons out of the hands of people, no transportation that is not trackable and that you can limit. WWII was lost apparently. Totalitarian government. Thought control, everything control.
 

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I really love being a USA Citizen.

Globalism is a poison that the EU is forcing its Citizens to swallow. Privacy is outlawed, and to ensure that, one needs all of the weapons out of the hands of people, no transportation that is not trackable and that you can limit. WWII was lost apparently. Totalitarian government. Thought control, everything control.
You are posting in a forum dedicated to transportation machines that are GPS enabled made by a corporate giant located in the E.U. How absurd.
 
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You are posting in a forum dedicated to transportation machines that are GPS enabled made by a corporate giant located in the E.U. How absurd.
Don't feed the trolls!
I had a hard time trying to figure out where your 'random' comment came from. But then remembered that I blocked someone on this forum and it leaves out their posts :ROFLMAO:
I bet it's once again about how the EU is the mother of all evil. That the US is the only free nation left in the world but it's being torn down by liberals ;)
 

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I’ve had my MINI Cooper SE for 7 months. With over 7k on it I did the math on the energy cost. It comes to $19 for every 1,000 miles. I do charge exclusively at home taking advantage of the low over night rates. This falls in line with the i3 I had for three years. Not only do I avoid going to the gas station I save a ton on fuel and I like knowing the energy used is from the US. Add to that the first service isn”t until November 2023 and consists of a cabin filter and brake fluid change. Just like the gas station I like not seeing the dealer service depatrment.
Not to highjack, but still relevant, I have ICE MINIs and an i3, so I know how both drive. How's the MINI compare to the i3?

My only caveat is the i3 and MINI both have a face only a mother could love, but the MINI has always reminded me of the warier Vogons from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy :ROFLMAO: 🍿

Pond turtle Turtle Snout Terrestrial animal Tortoise
Car Tire Vehicle Land vehicle Wheel
 

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I think the least expensive route is:

1. You drive the Miata as a daily driver
2. You sell the Opel
3. Your girlfriend drives the Cayman on her short drive to work (as long as there is inside and safe parking)

This saves transaction costs and long-term operating costs (the Miata is dirt cheap to own and operate).
Plus your girlfriend will hold you in high esteem- and that is worth more than a car.
 

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Not to highjack, but still relevant, I have ICE MINIs and an i3, so I know how both drive. How's the MINI compare to the i3?

My only caveat is the i3 and MINI both have a face only a mother could love, but the MINI has always reminded me of the warier Vogons from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy :ROFLMAO: 🍿

View attachment 43443 View attachment 43444
I like the MINI much better than the i3. It does everything better including getting way farther on a charge. The MINI has the larger battery and even though it is EPA rated at 114 miles I typically get 140 miles, which is almost double what I got with the I3. No more range anxiety..The MINI SE is just a regular car but still a MINI in how it drives. The i3 was BMW’s experiment in new ideas, some of which worked well and were cool others not so much. The carbon fiber was cool but the down side is its expensive to repair and insurance rates reflected that with it being almost double of what the MINI is. No regrets getting this car. At todays gas prices and the reduced maintenance this car wiill more than pay for itself in gas and maintenance cost over its life.
 

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Don't feed the trolls!
I had a hard time trying to figure out where your 'random' comment came from. But then remembered that I blocked someone on this forum and it leaves out their posts :ROFLMAO:
I bet it's once again about how the EU is the mother of all evil. That the US is the only free nation left in the world but it's being torn down by liberals ;)
Great idea on blocking this someone. I just did the same and yes they said all those things. It is very tiresome and dull, especially since I’m a dual citizen, lived in both Europe and the US and know better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Just placed a deposit on a 77kWh Cupra Born this week. Delivery is expected by September-October this year. We'll see if they are able to comply with that.
We'll have the entire summer to decide which car to get rid of, whether the Miata or the Opel.

Thanks for you insights on the matter.
 

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I like the MINI much better than the i3. It does everything better including getting way farther on a charge. The MINI has the larger battery and even though it is EPA rated at 114 miles I typically get 140 miles, which is almost double what I got with the I3. No more range anxiety..The MINI SE is just a regular car but still a MINI in how it drives. The i3 was BMW’s experiment in new ideas, some of which worked well and were cool others not so much. The carbon fiber was cool but the down side is its expensive to repair and insurance rates reflected that with it being almost double of what the MINI is. No regrets getting this car. At todays gas prices and the reduced maintenance this car wiill more than pay for itself in gas and maintenance cost over its life.
The range question really depends on which i3 version you got. At launch it had around 20kWh of battery capacity which was increased to around 30 and finally 40 kWh with later model years. The MINI uses the 30kWh battery and as you say is great fun to drive but we can get 180+ miles from our 40kWh i3. It’s carbon fibre, mid-engined, relatively light for a BEV and rear wheel drive - what’s not to like? Plus it costs me a maximum of £2 to fully charge when we don’t generate enough solar.
 

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The range question really depends on which i3 version you got. At launch it had around 20kWh of battery capacity which was increased to around 30 and finally 40 kWh with later model years. The MINI uses the 30kWh battery and as you say is great fun to drive but we can get 180+ miles from our 40kWh i3. It’s carbon fibre, mid-engined, relatively light for a BEV and rear wheel drive - what’s not to like? Plus it costs me a maximum of £2 to fully charge when we don’t generate enough solar.
Mine was a 2016 with the 20 Kw battery so the MINI was an upgrade in capacity but what I did not expect was the almost doubling of range. I knew the 114 mile range being claimed was pretty spot on based on my experience with the i3 but was surprised by the real world range being more. This experience seems to be a common one. I expected it would not match the i3 as it‘s not optimized for efficiency like the i3 is. What I don’t miss are the skinny tires on the i3, which are expensive to replace for what they are. Plus they have little grip making it easy to bring the rear end out. LOL. When I share with co-workers on the cost of electricity to commute to work is $1, they don’t believe me, especially those spending about $15 on gas for a similar distance commute. Gasoline usage is now measured in smiles per gallon, which is what the Cayman is for.
 
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