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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. The 4.0 made the 981 GTS lose the "last of a kind" image for the fan base that will hit its price holding in the medium term, especially after the used market of 4.0 begins to grow.

2. The Base and S models did hold their price, even having a small increase. This lineup opened a new market for the newbies that are not biased by the six flat old fan base thoughts and killed all myths about the 4 pot did not sell.

3. The GTS is admittedly a bit faster version than the GTS 4.0 with more potential for track use and spirited driving; since the GTS 4.0 has a powerful image for the fan base, the GTS 2.5 turned into a great valued car for track use.

In the end, releasing the four-cylinder engine and the 4.0 NA was an excellent decision for all customers of Porsche.
Probably things will continue to change in a very different way than it was expected to happen a couple of years ago.

Check this video.

 

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The GTS is admittedly a bit faster version than the GTS 4.0...
"Admittedly" by who? I watched the video when it came out and and it makes no claims of this kind.

Even with evidence to the contrary, some of which you provided, you continue to peddle this line :rolleyes:
 

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4. COVID and chip shortage has impacted the market way more than 4.0 GTS, so no conclusions can be drawn.
Exactly.

I commented in this video that we are living completely abnormal period when it comes to consumption of non-essential goods.
As soon as people will start to get back to their life, they will target their money elsewhere (traveling for example).
Demand will drop significantly and prices will follow.

(Not to mention that the economic forecast for US is quite scary)

I would like to see this same analysis in 1/1,5 year from now.
 

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PorscheWolfe in sheep’s clothing?

The market is screwed up because of covid production disruptions and increased demand due to covid vacation disruptions.

Existential pontification about the outcome, nature and genesis of the 4- vs. 6-cylinder and the N.A. vs F.I. religious wars vis-a-vis Porsche’s perfect hindsight is proffered in the hopes of generating clicks?
 

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Uh, gee whiz, I actually stayed awake during that.

I was pleased to see that the base 718 went up in value so much. Also for the S, I think but I may have slept through that part. Don't know what it means except that there is demand for them but the supply is a bit short. Otherwise, um, I was struck by the narrator's comment at the beginning of the video that he had never driven one. Okay, so, like, ah, yeah....

I think I'll keep mine for many more years.
 

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As someone who tracks the prices of used Alfa 4C, Lotus Elise and Porsche 996, I have witnessed a dramatic increase in prices in 2021. Covid and chip shortage are drivers. But heavy government spending/Fed bond buying is inflating all assets- and is the true driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
4. COVID and chip shortage has impacted the market way more than 4.0 GTS, so no conclusions can be drawn.
The video is about the used market, but desirability can be seen even with a chip shortage situation.
I mean, "you won't buy a car don't like it because the one you like is not available."
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
"Admittedly" by who? I watched the video when it came out and and it makes no claims of this kind.

Even with evidence to the contrary, some of which you provided, you continue to peddle this line :rolleyes:
You provided a source 0-60 3.6 seconds for the GTS 2.5; is that faster than 4.0? I took your Car & Driver source data.
But this is not the subject of this thread, let's avoid keeping stuck on this here.
 

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You provided a source 0-60 3.6 seconds for the GTS 2.5; is that faster than 4.0? I took your Car & Driver source data.
But this is not the subject of this thread, let's avoid keeping stuck on this here.
People use this forum as a source of information, so when someone makes an inaccurate claim or statement, it warrants challenging. Your statement that the "GTS is admittedly a bit faster version than the GTS 4.0..." is not supported by any evidence, including evidence you presented to support this claim:

Porsche 718 Cayman GTS PDK - Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK: head to head

As for the C&D 3.6 second time, that was one that you provided in response to the data I posted. I merely pointed out that it was for a 2.5T with a PDK gearbox.
AFAIK they have not tested the 4.0 GTS with a PDK gearbox. When they do I would be very surprised if it wasn't as quick, if not quicker (which is what the zeperfs chart you provided show). They have however tested both models with manual transmissions (which was they data I provided):

2018 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS : 60 mph: 4.1 sec
2020 Porsche 718 Boxster GTS 4.0: 60 mph: 3.8 sec

As for relevance to the topic, I was merely responding to a statement made in your original post. So if it isn't relevant, why feel the need to include it in the first place...

As to the subject of the 4.0 is likely to affect the Boxster and Cayman market I think it is too soon to draw any valid conclusions, especially as there are other factors that are likely to have a bigger impact on the market both now and for the foreseeable future (COVID-19, supply issues). My gut feel says that the 981s won't be affected much and that the 718 base and S are unlikely to be too affected either. If any car is going to be affected it will be the 718 GTS 2.5 but the affect if the impact will vary from territory to territory.

Anyway, I think i'll take a cue from @worf and bow out now.
 

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People use this forum as a source of information, so when someone makes an inaccurate claim or statement, it warrants challenging. Your statement that the "GTS is admittedly a bit faster version than the GTS 4.0..." is not supported by any evidence, including evidence you presented to support this claim:

Porsche 718 Cayman GTS PDK - Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK: head to head

As for the C&D 3.6 second time, that was one that you provided in response to the data I posted. I merely pointed out that it was for a 2.5T with a PDK gearbox.
AFAIK they have not tested the 4.0 GTS with a PDK gearbox. When they do I would be very surprised if it wasn't as quick, if not quicker (which is what the zeperfs chart you provided show). They have however tested both models with manual transmissions (which was they data I provided):

2018 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS : 60 mph: 4.1 sec
2020 Porsche 718 Boxster GTS 4.0: 60 mph: 3.8 sec

As for relevance to the topic, I was merely responding to a statement made in your original post. So if it isn't relevant, why feel the need to include it in the first place...

As to the subject of the 4.0 is likely to affect the Boxster and Cayman market I think it is too soon to draw any valid conclusions, especially as there are other factors that are likely to have a bigger impact on the market both now and for the foreseeable future (COVID-19, supply issues). My gut feel says that the 981s won't be affected much and that the 718 base and S are unlikely to be too affected either. If any car is going to be affected it will be the 718 GTS 2.5 but the affect if the impact will vary from territory to territory.

Anyway, I think i'll take a cue from @worf and bow out now.
I am with your commentary on accuracy. FreshDriver seems to NEED to insert that commentary in every string he is involved in and loves to highlight (cherry pick?) the Car & Driver 3.6 sec stat. He does though, totally ignore the 3.3 sec stat that they just did with a GT4 PDK or the 3.5 non professional draggy time posted on Rennlist ... both of which have been pointed out to him before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am with your commentary on accuracy. FreshDriver seems to NEED to insert that commentary in every string he is involved in and loves to highlight (cherry pick?) the Car & Driver 3.6 sec stat. He does though, totally ignore the 3.3 sec stat that they just did with a GT4 PDK or the 3.5 non professional draggy time posted on Rennlist ... both of which have been pointed out to him before.
No, I quote the 3.6 from C&D because somebody qualified my other sources as not credible, so I pointed C&D because is the one here was referred to as credible, then I use the very same source that was stated as credible..just that simple! but remember that Porsche itself gave a number "below 3.9 secs".
As far draggy slips, there are plenty on the net with similar numbers, including Rennlist.Do you want me to look for them and post it here to make this a never-ending thread?
GT4 PDK 3.5 ? Lol... How much money extra paid for only 0.1 seconds faster? Just load a Stage 1 file in the GTS to destroy that number.
GT4 is much more than a 0-60, no one buys it because its 0-60 number.
 

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I don't know in the US, but in Europe these last two years brand-new car prices have increased significantly due to emissions taxes and so on. This can of course also affect the used market. If the retail price of a new car increases overnight by 5000€, I think it's quite logical for the used units to increase their price accordingly.
The official cost of a base Cayman in Spain last year was 62.000€. Next time I checked Porsche's site, it had increased to 65.500€.
 

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No, I quote the 3.6 from C&D because somebody qualified my other sources as not credible, so I pointed C&D because is the one here was referred to as credible, then I use the very same source that was stated as credible..just that simple! but remember that Porsche itself gave a number "below 3.9 secs".
As far draggy slips, there are plenty on the net with similar numbers, including Rennlist.Do you want me to look for them and post it here to make this a never-ending thread?
GT4 PDK 3.5 ? Lol... How much money extra paid for only 0.1 seconds faster? Just load a Stage 1 file in the GTS to destroy that number.
GT4 is much more than a 0-60, no one buys it because its 0-60 number.
I love my GTS 2.5 so this isn't sour grapes. Stop trying to win this one. The 4.0 will be faster sometimes, the 2.5 will be faster also at times. Accept that. Cherry picking data doesn't do anyone any good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I love my GTS 2.5 so this isn't sour grapes. Stop trying to win this one. The 4.0 will be faster sometimes, the 2.5 will be faster also at times. Accept that. Cherry-picking data doesn't do anyone any good.
That's why I did not cherry pick, never did it, but somebody cherry-picked the one that suited better to support his position, so I did use that very same cherry-picked source.
I tried many times to stop this never-ending subject, but for some reason, a new reply with the same thing comes over and over.
Hopefully this is the last one.
 

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That's why I did not cherry pick, never did it, but somebody cherry-picked the one that suited better to support his position, so I did use that very same cherry-picked source. I tried many times to stop this never-ending subject, but for some reason, a new reply with the same thing comes over and over.

Hopefully this is the last one.
I think all these cars are awesome and worthy of enjoyment which is why it is exhausting when some people ALWAYS have to try to declare/assert/show stats that says theirs is better. I also find it hilarious that you would say "I tried many times to stop this never-ending subject, but for some reason, a new reply with the same thing comes over and over" when you started this string sating "The GTS is admittedly a bit faster version than the GTS 4.0 with more potential for track use and spirited driving." You are initiating the these conversations as you have done in other strings in the past while once again discounting facts/stats that prove don't support your assertions ... and/or always talk about how a tuned/modded 2.5 would eventually be faster (as you have done again here in this string). You even try to manipulate the stats again. BL; Car & Driver test equals Car & Driver test ... your 3.6 vs. the new 3.3. No one has said anything bad about your car ... but you seem to have a NEED to, without solicitation, START threads proffering assertions and cherry picking data to disparage other cars ... or make you feel better about yours. Live and let live . Peace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think all these cars are awesome and worthy of enjoyment which is why it is exhausting when some people ALWAYS have to try to declare/assert/show stats that says theirs is better. I also find it hilarious that you would say "I tried many times to stop this never-ending subject, but for some reason, a new reply with the same thing comes over and over" when you started this string sating "The GTS is admittedly a bit faster version than the GTS 4.0 with more potential for track use and spirited driving." You are initiating the these conversations as you have done in other strings in the past while once again discounting facts/stats that prove don't support your assertions ... and/or always talk about how a tuned/modded 2.5 would eventually be faster (as you have done again here in this string). You even try to manipulate the stats again. BL; Car & Driver test equals Car & Driver test ... your 3.6 vs. the new 3.3. No one has said anything bad about your car ... but you seem to have a NEED to, without solicitation, START threads proffering assertions and cherry picking data to disparage other cars ... or make you feel better about yours. Live and let live . Peace.
I never said it is better! You will not find a phrase from me saying that. I just showed the numbers, and some people did not like what they say....period!
But for some reason touching that point hurts beyond a reasonable way.
Is this an open forum where anyone can give a free opinion if they are respectfully? If not please explain me.
 

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I never said it is better! You will not find a phrase from me saying that. I just showed the numbers, and some people did not like what they say....period!
But for some reason touching that point hurts beyond a reasonable way.
Is this an open forum where anyone can give a free opinion if they are respectfully? If not please explain me.
All good bro ... not worth the effort. You keep being you. Peace.
 
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