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A lot of great info on this thread, especially the latest posts.

It occurred to me that nobody, be it here or any journalist for that matter, hasn't touched on a denominator that is often talked about when it comes to the 4 vs. 6 topic.

Hope I am not, nor is it my intention to stoke any flames so be kind!

Thinking back to when the B entry luxury sedan market was truly taking off with the likes of the A4, C class and 3 series bringing out more and more permutations. This was while I was still living in Canada and the 3 and C were mostly 6 cylinders while the bread and butter A4 stuck with a 1.8T and soon after the 2.0T. I had a string of Audi A4s and always with the 4 cyl. I'd test drive the competition each time a switch was to be made but always came back to Audi. Mostly due to brand loyalty.

However, I did always find that the C class felt more premium, complete and in general more substantial. I realised it came down to that lump of a V6 purred away quietly and didn't have to work so hard. I then took an S4 for a drive and confirmed my suspicions. Yes, the S4 was exceptionally faster than the A4 I ended up ordering but as mentioned above, the 6 cyl did provide a more upscale and premium experience.

Having thought through the above again, I called up a mate who has a 996 Carrera and asked we take his car to see my OPC about my next car. He's driven mine a few times, 2.5 GTS, and commented how much faster, nimble etc it is compared to his. He loves it as do I. However, sitting in his car, feeling the weight of that engine and all that comes with it did heighten the experience. By no means did it make it a better car but it did touch on the points mentioned above.

Would be interesting to hear from those who have had both a 4 cyl and now a 6 718 and whether or not any of the above is ringing true.

Flipping that on it's side, the day that my GTS 2.5 is going back to my OPC is drawing closer and while I am ecstatic to be getting a Spyder I am feeling the pangs of sellers remorse. I've only had this car for a short while but what a car. Going back to the sound, I personally love it. Throaty, long legs etc. Perhaps I'm reading more forum posts than I should but all the threads about long gearing, loss of pops/bangs etc has me looking at the GTS with more appreciation and dare I say admiration.

Apologies for the wavering reply. :unsure:
The drive, the many hour drive lol, I had in my friends 981 GT4 made me realize how efficient the F4t is. He was rowing thru the gears like a madman to reach speeds I would have attained in two. He actually went into 6th gear on what I would consider a tertiary road. Heck I barely use 6th on the highway. Now I understand it's a GT car and all, but it was very loud in the cabin and I had to keep asking him to repeat himself and we weren't even wearing n95 masks lol Made me appreciate the F4T much more. It's fast and civilized.
 

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A lot of great info on this thread, especially the latest posts.

It occurred to me that nobody, be it here or any journalist for that matter, hasn't touched on a denominator that is often talked about when it comes to the 4 vs. 6 topic.

Hope I am not, nor is it my intention to stoke any flames so be kind!

Thinking back to when the B entry luxury sedan market was truly taking off with the likes of the A4, C class and 3 series bringing out more and more permutations. This was while I was still living in Canada and the 3 and C were mostly 6 cylinders while the bread and butter A4 stuck with a 1.8T and soon after the 2.0T. I had a string of Audi A4s and always with the 4 cyl. I'd test drive the competition each time a switch was to be made but always came back to Audi. Mostly due to brand loyalty.

However, I did always find that the C class felt more premium, complete and in general more substantial. I realised it came down to that lump of a V6 purred away quietly and didn't have to work so hard. I then took an S4 for a drive and confirmed my suspicions. Yes, the S4 was exceptionally faster than the A4 I ended up ordering but as mentioned above, the 6 cyl did provide a more upscale and premium experience.

Having thought through the above again, I called up a mate who has a 996 Carrera and asked we take his car to see my OPC about my next car. He's driven mine a few times, 2.5 GTS, and commented how much faster, nimble etc it is compared to his. He loves it as do I. However, sitting in his car, feeling the weight of that engine and all that comes with it did heighten the experience. By no means did it make it a better car but it did touch on the points mentioned above.

Would be interesting to hear from those who have had both a 4 cyl and now a 6 718 and whether or not any of the above is ringing true.

Flipping that on it's side, the day that my GTS 2.5 is going back to my OPC is drawing closer and while I am ecstatic to be getting a Spyder I am feeling the pangs of sellers remorse. I've only had this car for a short while but what a car. Going back to the sound, I personally love it. Throaty, long legs etc. Perhaps I'm reading more forum posts than I should but all the threads about long gearing, loss of pops/bangs etc has me looking at the GTS with more appreciation and dare I say admiration.

Apologies for the wavering reply. :unsure:
I've had both and still have a 19GTS in the family... I've said many times this conversation is pointless.

Both make great power and deliver in spades. I've not experienced a difference in how I drive between the two other than Manual vs. PDK.

Despite what some think the NA F6 is no slouch in the low end torque department, no more so than the F4T falling flat on top end. No way is Porsche going to put in a engine that doesn't provide Torque & HP for the task at hand.
 

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The drive, the many hour drive lol, I had in my friends 981 GT4 made me realize how efficient the F4t is. He was rowing thru the gears like a madman to reach speeds I would have attained in two. He actually went into 6th gear on what I would consider a tertiary road. Heck I barely use 6th on the highway. Now I understand it's a GT car and all, but it was very loud in the cabin and I had to keep asking him to repeat himself and we weren't even wearing n95 masks lol Made me appreciate the F4T much more. It's fast and civilized.
Not sure I follow this. GT4 manual has 6 very tall gears - hits 85 MPH in 2nd. My 2.5T GTS PDK has 7 gears and hits 65ish in 2nd. So GT4 can attain higher speeds in lower and fewer gears.
 

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Not sure I follow this. GT4 manual has 6 very tall gears - hits 85 MPH in 2nd. My 2.5T GTS PDK has 7 gears and hits 65ish in 2nd. So GT4 can attain higher speeds in lower and fewer gears.
Well make of it what you will. We were on what are basically back roads with speed limits around 35 to 40mph. He exceeded the limits to maybe 60 at times, but I know driving my F4T on the same roads I could have easily maintained the same speeds in the first three gears and stayed under 4k. He was rowing to 6500 plus. He's a track guy. Has the GT4, a 50th Anniversary 911, Macon Turbo and a Ford Shelby GT350. Oh and a Beemer Z4. He knows what he's doing, but I was kind of surprised where he needed to go in the into the rev range in that GT4 to maintain those speeds. These are hilly, winding roads. I know I can move at the same clip without winding it out in the same way.
 

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Well make of it what you will. We were on what are basically back roads with speed limits around 35 to 40mph. He exceeded the limits to maybe 60 at times, but I know driving my F4T on the same roads I could have easily maintained the same speeds in the first three gears and stayed under 4k. He was rowing to 6500 plus. He's a track guy. Has the GT4, a 50th Anniversary 911, Macon Turbo and a Ford Shelby GT350. Oh and a Beemer Z4. He knows what he's doing, but I was kind of surprised where he needed to go in the into the rev range in that GT4 to maintain those speeds. These are hilly, winding roads. I know I can move at the same clip without winding it out in the same way.
981 GT4 and all of the 718 6-speeds have the same transmission and axle ratios.

For what it’s worth:
6500 in 2nd gear is 69mph.
6500 in 6th is 166mph.

There’s two things that I think may be the case:
1. The extra low end torque of the turbo-4 makes it easier to pull out of 2nd and 3rd at lower RPM where one might downshift the flat-6 for the same effect.
2. He just likes or is used to wringing out the flat-6 more.

Without having access to my flat-6 (YET…) I can’t speak to (1). Obviously I can’t speak to (2).
 

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981 GT4 and all of the 718 6-speeds have the same transmission and axle ratios.

For what it’s worth:
6500 in 2nd gear is 69mph.
6500 in 6th is 166mph.

There’s two things that I think may be the case:
1. The extra low end torque of the turbo-4 makes it easier to pull out of 2nd and 3rd at lower RPM where one might downshift the flat-6 for the same effect.
2. He just likes or is used to wringing out the flat-6 more.

Without having access to my flat-6 (YET…) I can’t speak to (1). Obviously I can’t speak to (2).
I put my money on option two. I drove the entire length of the Blue Ridge Parkway as well as a few excursions (Tail of the Dragon, Hellbender and Cherohala) during my break in period. I found the amount of torque available at lower RPMs and at elevation pleasantly surprising. Absolutely no need to exceed 4K RPM even at speeds far exceeding the posted speed limit. I 'may' have busted my RPM limit a few times during some very 'spirited' driving .... those brakes got a serious workout though :).
 

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981 GT4 and all of the 718 6-speeds have the same transmission and axle ratios.

For what it’s worth:
6500 in 2nd gear is 69mph.
6500 in 6th is 166mph.

There’s two things that I think may be the case:
1. The extra low end torque of the turbo-4 makes it easier to pull out of 2nd and 3rd at lower RPM where one might downshift the flat-6 for the same effect.
2. He just likes or is used to wringing out the flat-6 more.

Without having access to my flat-6 (YET…) I can’t speak to (1). Obviously I can’t speak to (2).
The extra torque of the turbo lower in the power band, does allow shifting at lower RPMs for the same mass at the same speed.

All I can say is the two engines drive differently and one would expect that to be the case. The power for the NA comes on much later than the turbo. So my friend needed to shift more going up and down all those hills to stay in the power band.

By the way, the speeds you posted assume level ground. On level ground the differences between the two engines are less apparent.
 

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By the way, the speeds you posted assume level ground. On level ground the differences between the two engines are less apparent.
Wheel speed vs engine RPM in gear is consistent regardless of flat, uphill, or downhill. The tires are the primary propulsion factor for the vehicle.

If you're in a wheelspin condition with the drivewheels, indicated speeds will be off (higher than ground speed).

If you've left the ground, then it depends. If you accelerate the wheels to faster than your current air speed, the speedometer would read high similar to the tire spin scenario above. The only time it would be low is if you were in free fall and you were braking the wheels to less than the current downwards velocity of the vehicle. Please don't test the latter claim. :)
 

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Anyone driven both the 718 S PDK and the GTS 4.0 PDK? If so, what are your thoughts on the driving experience leaving the sound comparison out of it?
 

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Anyone driven both the 718 S PDK and the GTS 4.0 PDK? If so, what are your thoughts on the driving experience leaving the sound comparison out of it?
If you're interested in a 2.5, don't let the sound argument dissuade. They both DO actually sound good. After driving both, I can say it really depends on what you like/prefer and how you drive. At ~2000 RPM, the 2.5 produces almost 17% more torque than the 4.0. That being said, that means the 4.0 still produces over 83% of either cars total torque output at that same 2000 RPMs. You can feel that difference though at low RPMs but it in no way makes the 4.0 a slouch. That difference though quickly disappears and then shifts into the 4.0's favor as you climb the rev range with the 4.0 producing ~45lb-ft and 60 more HP at the top of the range. I personally (my choice ... everyone else has their own reasoning/habits) did not buy the car to drive it at ~2000RPM and since I immediately put the car in Sport or Sport+ as soon as I turn it on, and love to rev it out every chance I get on and off of the track, I almost never see anything less than 3000RPM. I also like the connected/responsiveness and linear power delivery of the 4.0. They are all great and just 'get after it' differently. Just get what works best for you and how you drive.
 

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Anyone driven both the 718 S PDK and the GTS 4.0 PDK? If so, what are your thoughts on the driving experience leaving the sound comparison out of it?
Sound wasn't a legitimate factor on my list of must haves when deciding to trade up to a GTS. The critical issue for me is will it outperform my BS at the track, which I suspect may depend on track layout. The BS may be quicker at a tighter track like Harris Hill, but fairly certain the 4.0 will walk our BS at faster tracks like COTA...YMMV.
 

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I love my 718 2l Boxster. If anyone has exhaust envy, ditch the stock exhaust and replace it with one from any of several after market companies. Personally, I did not want to spend the $5Gs for PSE and the raw sound really did not seem to fit a $75 K sports car. I opted for a more refined tone with an AWE Touring exhaust - no switches, toggles or fobs - it’s always on. If you need more sound Fab Speed and Soul make exhausts for all tastes. Below is a video of the Awe touring exhaust in both regular followed by sport mode. Costs less than half what PSE as an option.
Don’t you lose your warranty if you get an aftermarket exhaust and how do you pass the annual vehicle licensing test?
 

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Don’t you lose your warranty if you get an aftermarket exhaust and how do you pass the annual vehicle licensing test?
The OEM would likely not cover any warranty claims on the mufflers or stuff directly attached to it, i.e. if the exhaust manifolds showed signs of abnormal wear / cracked.

In the U.S., the manufacturer would have to prove the exhaust caused a failure to other systems. In the case that you threw a connecting rot, it would be unlikely that they would refute a warranty claim.

Now, the guys on this thread who are doing some big power tunes on their turbo - they’re throwing the engine warranty out the window.

As for the licensing question - that depends on how loud the exhaust is and what your state and local regulations are. Caifornia doesn’t have annual vehicle inspections, so you could install pretty much any system - police would be the ones enforcing the vehicle code.
 

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I am not sure about US warranty. I have never had to deal with it... but your warranty assumptions seem optimistic to me.

It would be highly dependant on the dealer I expect as to how they present the case to Porsche US/International. If they are supportive of the customer, you may get anything through warranty, but if they are not...

Does Porsche need to prove it caused a failure... or is it the other way around? My expectation is that Porsche could just refuse warranty for any reason... and then the ball is in your court to take up legal remedy with them if you wish to appeal their decision. This could be some major hassle and cost.

In the case of an exhaust, it is quite reasonable for a manufacturer to attribute engine related damage to it. Certainly a turbo issue could be attributed to an exhaust as it would change thermal management in the turbo. Possible engine heating related issues (since aftermarket exhaust does not have the same heat shielding). I think just about anything that went on the engine could be attributed to an exhaust upgrade and if it went to court, it would be difficult to prove otherwise since Porsche engineers are the experts on their product.

I should say that I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that an exhaust upgrade will cause a warranty issue. But I would not presume that Porsche would not use it as an out on a enigne related warranty claim if they wanted to do so.

My opinion with modifying cars is you pay to play. You take a risk and 99% of the time there is no issue. It is a risk I am mostly willing to take. But I waited until warranty had expired on mine before modding.
 

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Exhaust systems are on the tail-end of things, literally and figuratively. An exhaust system that is more efficient would help the turbo more than hurt and Porsche would have an uphill battle in the U.S.. They could decide to drag it out in court - and could very well lose. If you modified something connected directly to the turbo, then you're running a slippery slope. Lose a turbo and subsequently lose a motor, yeah, that's bad news.

A cold air intake system could hurt more - if it filters less particulate and you lose an engine due to cylinder wear, you'd be out tens of thousands for the gain.

In fairness to myself and my perspective - I'm used to tuning NA cars, and typically front-engine ones. If a muffler blows your motor up, something VERY special happened.

But what you said here...
My opinion with modifying cars is you pay to play. You take a risk and 99% of the time there is no issue. It is a risk I am mostly willing to take. But I waited until warranty had expired on mine before modding.
...I agree with 100%. 20 years ago, when I was younger, dumber, and less financially secure, I did all kinds of stupid things that could have cost me a warranty. I could, albeit with much regret, pay to replace an engine in one of these cars now, I couldn't then. But I would have done all kinds of mods to a new car then and I won't now. Go figure!
 

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I'm confused about those who wait until the warranty expires to make the performance changes they want. 1. whether it explodes before or after the warranty expires, you own it anyway and it will cost you. 2. you could have had the car the way you wanted it for all of the years the warranty was in force.
 

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I'm confused about those who wait until the warranty expires to make the performance changes they want. 1. whether it explodes before or after the warranty expires, you own it anyway and it will cost you. 2. you could have had the car the way you wanted it for all of the years the warranty was in force.
I think there’s a middle ground. Voiding the warranty off the showroom floor is assuming a LOT of risk. If it turns out you had a motor that was built poorly you never gave it a chance to prove that it was the OEM’s fault. Waiting until the day after the warranty expires - yeah, what you said. I’ve gotten over engine modding for the most part, probably because I’ve owned 650 HP cars and have had custom motors built and installed.

Plus, it recently became a LOT harder in CA recently as they’re now scanning for non-OE ECM tunes during smog.
 

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I think there’s a middle ground. Voiding the warranty off the showroom floor is assuming a LOT of risk. If it turns out you had a motor that was built poorly you never gave it a chance to prove that it was the OEM’s fault. Waiting until the day after the warranty expires - yeah, what you said. I’ve gotten over engine modding for the most part, probably because I’ve owned 650 HP cars and have had custom motors built and installed.

Plus, it recently became a LOT harder in CA recently as they’re now scanning for non-OE ECM tunes during smog.
I understand not driving to a tuner from the dealer. And obviously no one can know when some issue will appear even after thousands of miles. An engine can go bad at any time, warranty or no warranty. I was just curious about the end of warranty idea. If it blows up prior to the warranty expiring due to a tune, the owner is on the hook and similarly after the term of warranty expiring. As you stated, there's a risk, but also maybe middle ground to get it done while the car is still somewhat fresh and under warranty.
 
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